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Is there a way to increase the global volume of Kronos?

 
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kday
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Joined: 22 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 12:55 pm    Post subject: Is there a way to increase the global volume of Kronos? Reply with quote

I'm trying to increase the overall volume of the Kronos output, is there a way to do this?

Like on my Fantom X, i can go into system and it has an option to increase global level for all sounds just in case needed. I can't seem to find an option like that anywhere in Kronos for global volume control.

Anyone know how to do that?
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GregC
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Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Is there a way to increase the global volume of Kronos? Reply with quote

kday wrote:
I'm trying to increase the overall volume of the Kronos output, is there a way to do this?

Like on my Fantom X, i can go into system and it has an option to increase global level for all sounds just in case needed. I can't seem to find an option like that anywhere in Kronos for global volume control.

Anyone know how to do that?


i know you are saying ' just in case '

What exactly is the issue ?
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Falcon2e
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The output signal is a value that the design engineers deemed appropriate. If that's not good enough for your desired volume, maybe you need an amp system with more wattage.
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kday
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Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Is there a way to increase the global volume of Kronos? Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
kday wrote:
I'm trying to increase the overall volume of the Kronos output, is there a way to do this?

Like on my Fantom X, i can go into system and it has an option to increase global level for all sounds just in case needed. I can't seem to find an option like that anywhere in Kronos for global volume control.

Anyone know how to do that?


i know you are saying ' just in case '

What exactly is the issue ?


I was going direct into an computer audio interface and it didn't have strong enough gain on the live input.

On my other keyboards they had a global gain on the stereo outputs, but I guess not this one.

I believe the gain can be increased on combis and programs, but I was looking for a global gain option to just adjust the level a little higher on the overall keyboard from what it is now.
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GregC
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Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Is there a way to increase the global volume of Kronos? Reply with quote

kday wrote:
GregC wrote:
kday wrote:
I'm trying to increase the overall volume of the Kronos output, is there a way to do this?

Like on my Fantom X, i can go into system and it has an option to increase global level for all sounds just in case needed. I can't seem to find an option like that anywhere in Kronos for global volume control.

Anyone know how to do that?


i know you are saying ' just in case '

What exactly is the issue ?


I was going direct into an computer audio interface and it didn't have strong enough gain on the live input.

On my other keyboards they had a global gain on the stereo outputs, but I guess not this one.

I believe the gain can be increased on combis and programs, but I was looking for a global gain option to just adjust the level a little higher on the overall keyboard from what it is now.


no such global gain. There are solid reasons for this. Consider the K is not your simpler rompler like a Fantom or FA, etc. The K has 9 engines.

Really apples and oranges.

What do other K owners do ? You have to start with the instrument types
that might need more punch. You can use EQ and/or amp modeling FX.
For example. It works great.

Is it more work ? Yes.

Is it worth it ? Yes

And of course, you can attack your external audio for what volume you need, if that makes sense for your requirements.
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19naia
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn’t make sense to me but that may be because i have been using korg systems to grow my keyboard operation skills.
Had a Roland once upon a time but that was back when i would get forever stuck just trying to figure out how to change a patch/program.

Main volume knob seems to be the global volume control and then there is Master volume.
After that, you have level control and gain control independently in each program.
Then you can put programs into combi or seq. tracks and have timbre and track volume control over them.

Maybe even something relative to volume control in IFX routed.

So.... After all that, Main volume seems like it is all the redundant volume adjustment needed, that focuses on global volume control no matter what mode or patch you switch to.

If the issue is that you are not getting as much loudness out of Kronos main volume(which is an issue mentioned often), the right thing to have is an amplified sound system that gives you the loudness from the amp.
Kronos has amp control per programs and i also use timbre or track EQ to get more volume out of programs in combi mode where a layer of programs can be a mix of programs that have a hard time getting loud enough and programs that are naturally too loud. Independent EQ for each track/timbre helps me balance the sound and loudness between programs originally with incompatible volume. There is a certain nariow range of EQ configuration that makes sounds much louder for me in Tmbre EQ.

Kronos Main volume does nice & even volume control right up to about two thirds of the knob range, then the volume control response tapers off very steep from there, where it seems a waste of effort to turn past two-thirds of the knob range while looking for more volume.

Gobal basics setting has “Internal Headroom” settings but i am not sure how/if that will help in what you are looking for.

I have to do two different EQ mixes for everything, one for headphones and the other for my amplified speaker/monitors. That is the Main reason why i use setlist mode for playing my music. Setlist has a Global EQ that covers whatever is slotted into setlist from any mode. If the headphones are weak in the bass end, i bypass EQ and let kronos natural sound come through, and reserve the option to work out an EQ configuration to enhance the bass end.
My speakers tend to get overwhelmed with Kronos natural bass range, so i EQ a setlist with the right frequencies to make a smoother blast of sound from those speakers/monitors. I can have a different global EQ for each setlist.

Every little bit of sound control helps and it all comes together under Main volume control.
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voip
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The specification for the Kronos' nominal output level is +4dBu, which is the standard for professional audio gear, and should be plenty for most amplifier systems. Having said that, some Programs can sound much quieter than others. This has been done in order to preserve the dynamic range that a program may be capable of. One way round this is to use a compression effect to reduce the dynamic range thusboosting the quieter sounds.

.
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mm-pro
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Location: Portland, Maine USA

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am 2500 miles from my Kronos, but there is a global control for headroom and if you lower the headroom you can get more level out, with the caveat you may get distortion if your total output is too loud.
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pete.m
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could also add a TFX/MFX to the end of your chain - maybe a compression, mastering or amp program. I believe that the MFX/TFX will only affect the stereo out signal, rather than any signals going out via the aux outputs. But, really, there shouldn't be a problem with the Kronos' output level anyway - I presume you have the master volume output set to 127.
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jeremykeys
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Joined: 19 Jun 2011
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which outputs are you using to get into your computer?

Also, have you considered an active interface? I use a mixer after my Kronos, to get intimate my computer.ive never had a volume problem.
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Gunnar
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Joined: 27 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds a bit odd that the level of of the Kronos is too low for the interface. What audio interface is it and what is its gain setting?

Balanced vs unbalanced cables might also make a difference..

I've plugged my Kronos into several different ones and it has been plenty loud.. I tend to aim for about -18dB when recording in the daw and most of the stock programs overshoot that with volume at 12 o'ckock.

Also note that the Kronos can be an audio interface on its own, and that interface is also plemty loud. (Only problem is that if you have a Mac running one of the later OSXs, you might run into issues, see other threads for details)
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popmann
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Joined: 24 Sep 2011
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Location: Nashville

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're having issues with the level of the output of the Kronos, you are having much larger audio engineering 101 issues.

Most people who decide to get into recording NOW....having no experience in the analog world, have no idea what calibration is. Here's the test--take a modern MASTERED recording, without using any kind of ReplayGain or Soundcheck (in iTunes)---hit play---if it doesn't blow you away with likely distorted volume, your production system isn't calibrated properly.

Take that same file.....apply a -14db** gain (either offline or via fader or clip gain or however your DAW handles it. Set your global STUDIO MONITOR volume control to half way--by this, I mean what you turn up and down to hear the whole production louder and quieter through the speakers. Now adjust the amplifier volume to where that is "moderate loudness"--meaning, that's where you'll do most of your work.

This gives you the ability to turn the monitor volumes up and down as needed during the production.

Once this basic "gonzo calibration" is done....plug the Kronos into the analog LINE LEVEL (not some universal mic preamp input) of the interface. Tell me there's still some global volume issue.

It's not helped by the fact that nearly all virtual instruments you open in your DAW will be calibrated to hit at or near digital full scale....but, you can reserve defaults with them turned down 10-15db.

I just couldn't NOT say something. This is what I do. And, if you, like many musicians trying to record themselves don't understand studio calibration levels, you will continue to make worse and worse recordings at you run it everything through more and more clipping algorithms and circuits trying to get everything louder than everything else while allowing no actual analog headroom to do that. Would you be disappointed that the Kronos can't output an analog +18db? No? That's literally what your'e asking with some interface's calibration levels. UA and MOTU, for example I'm pretty sure use -20dbfs=analog 0. Apogee uses -18 by default, but has a software switch to make it -20 or -22 for film audio calibration. Less expensive units actually calibrate closer to digital 0 BECAUSE they're less expensive and can't take the +18 analog signals....but, taking a "nicer" -20 calibrated interface and trying to get the Kronos (or anything) to PUSH +18 into it is a recipe for bad "digitally" sound.

Much of the things that people attribute to digital bad sound is simple bad engineering. IME.

**if you want to go one step more correct, look up the analog headroom, thus calibration point of your specific interface and down it by that +4db.
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