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D575 Platinum Member
Joined: 05 Aug 2013 Posts: 1201 Location: UK (Dorset)
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Derek Cook Approved Merchant
Joined: 20 Jul 2014 Posts: 1279 Location: Wales, UK
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D575 Platinum Member
Joined: 05 Aug 2013 Posts: 1201 Location: UK (Dorset)
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Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Derek Cook wrote: | Yeah, read that this morning. No evidence of wrong doing yet, but the fact they are being looked at is interesting..... | Yes... certainly interesting to see what the truth is there.....time will tell _________________ Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H SQ Mixer : |
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Mr_SamDoogie Full Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2014 Posts: 239 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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What a strange article is it real or fake news. Why do they include names from artist in the article its just to weird. _________________ In honor of the Groove and to all whom surrender to it, We say Thank You. And we take it Back.
Korg MW1, Casio PX5S & XW-G1, Roland JD-Xi,Yamaha Montage 7, Roland D-05, Bass Station II, Cubase Elements, Sonar X3 Producer.Handfull of IOs Apps iMPC,Animoog : Korg IMS-20,Module, IM1, Gadget etc. |
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megamarkd Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Aug 2017 Posts: 635 Location: Australia
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Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 1:14 am Post subject: |
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Mr_SamDoogie wrote: | What a strange article is it real or fake news. Why do they include names from artist in the article its just to weird. |
Common practise when trying to fill page space and talking about musical instrument companies to name check artists. Always when talking of Fender must a 'journalist' mention Hendrix, it's some rule of their's. Like if Moog was in there Keith Emerson would have to be mentioned. I find it funny that all the artists mentioned are ancient 'cept for Lady Gaga's keyboardist (isn't she a pianist?). _________________ Stuff I'm using: Umm right now, well there's a Volca Drum, a Micro Freak, an ADX-1, a Pulse, a Blofeld, a UNO Drum, KeyStep/Beatstep Pro/Keystep Pro (one of each), a Circuit, a LiveTrak L-12 and this nonsense: The Brief-case as it was about a bit over a year ago (the the complete ridiculous GAS monster collection here)and here |
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GregC Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002 Posts: 9451 Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 1:50 am Post subject: |
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Mr_SamDoogie wrote: | What a strange article is it real or fake news. Why do they include names from artist in the article its just to weird. |
I thought the article was odd. Some of it sounded ' inserted' as if tn attempt to round the so called story.
Whats doubly odd is that Korg and Yamahas HQ's are in Japan.
Going to country distributors office seems like a stretch.
How does that work ?
" We are here from CMA. Whats in that file cabinet ? "
'Would you like some tea ? Mostly marketing brochures from 10 yrs ago in that cabinet "
Where is Monty Python ? _________________ Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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Bachus Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 3127
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Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 8:51 am Post subject: |
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if this article is about price fixing..
Then Yamaha is the big evil..
I know two local dealers who lost their dealerships
For selling to cheap..
Yamaha is definately fixing pricing, and forcing their dealers to keep them up..
I don't think Korg really influences sales prices of Korg products, atleast there dealers seem to have much more freedom.
Anyway, a good example is the Yamaha Genos... production costs < 200.
Sales prices 4000, that definately sounds fishy to me... _________________ Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
www.keyszone.boards.net |
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GregC Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002 Posts: 9451 Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Bachus wrote: | if this article is about price fixing..
Then Yamaha is the big evil..
I know two local dealers who lost their dealerships
For selling to cheap..
Yamaha is definately fixing pricing, and forcing their dealers to keep them up..
I don't think Korg really influences sales prices of Korg products, atleast there dealers seem to have much more freedom.
Anyway, a good example is the Yamaha Genos... production costs < 200.
Sales prices 4000, that definately sounds fishy to me... |
Would guess many of us feel prices. esp older gear, is pushed , to stay high at retail.
Here in the US, MSRP is the vehicle. There are quiet inducements to a retailer to not stray from MSRP. Its been going on for a few decades. _________________ Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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dfahrner Platinum Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2008 Posts: 571 Location: Bend, OR
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Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Bachus wrote: | ...Anyway, a good example is the Yamaha Genos... production costs < 200. Sales prices 4000, that definately sounds fishy to me... |
Where does this cost-of-production figure come from, Bachus? Does it include parts costs? Production facility overhead? ??? It's hard to believe that such a large, complex device can be produced that cheaply, particularly when the quantity is so low as compared to mass-market commercial products like laptops and TVs...
df |
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nitecrawler Platinum Member
Joined: 22 Mar 2007 Posts: 975 Location: from a mile high to the the AZ desert
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Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="GregC"] Bachus wrote: | if this article is about price fixing..
Here in the US, MSRP is the vehicle. There are quiet inducements to a retailer to not stray from MSRP. Its been going on for a few decades. |
Never understood inducements. If a third party retailer feels he can make a profit at a reduced price then why not let him. Price for new instruments are strangely "like priced" most wherever you look. _________________ http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=807494
Montage M7, Pa5x76, Nautilus, PA3Xle, Oasys 76, Mini-Moog, EMU Audity 2000, Motion Sound KBR 3D amp, Presonus and Reaper DAW W/Tannoy Reveal 501A powered monitors |
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voip Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2014 Posts: 3777
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Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Anyway, a good example is the Yamaha Genos... production costs < 200. Sales prices 4000, that definately sounds fishy to me....
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Agree with dfahrner. 200 does sound rather optimistic. Assembly and test alone would probably account for that amount. This certainly isn't a mass production item. The software development and maintenance carries a hefty price tag to it. Certification to the various required standards is an expensive process, with recurring costs for annual review.
Consider, just for comparison, and for factoring into the manufacturing costs, that some of the high end PCB and mechanical design software can be in the region of $40,000 per seat per year.
. |
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GregC Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002 Posts: 9451 Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="nitecrawler"] GregC wrote: | Bachus wrote: | if this article is about price fixing..
Here in the US, MSRP is the vehicle. There are quiet inducements to a retailer to not stray from MSRP. Its been going on for a few decades. |
Never understood inducements. If a third party retailer feels he can make a profit at a reduced price then why not let him. Price for new instruments are strangely "like priced" most wherever you look. |
my context of ' inducements' was related to maintaining MSRP. The manufacturer sets MSRP ( here in the US).
The retailer is required to follow it. Lets play 'what if'. A retailer starts selling a $3000 keyboard at their cost + 2%.
As consumers do price compares, to get the best deal, many retailers see their sales flop unless they price match.
So MSRP becomes meaningless as the new 'street price ' takes over. Every other retailer complains to the mgr... " WTF are you going to do about this mess ?"
The mfgr quietly non allocates the next shipment supply of that $3000 keyboard
to the retailer who made a mess of MSRP. Thats an example of an 'inducement '
to play nice with MSRP.
Keep in mind, the above example is dated. I have no 1st hand view of what takes place currently. But I do note that MSRP and holding the line on price has definitely stabilized in the past 1-2 yrs. _________________ Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
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nitecrawler Platinum Member
Joined: 22 Mar 2007 Posts: 975 Location: from a mile high to the the AZ desert
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Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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If the manufacturer wants to control his pricing to the end use customer then they should only distribute through manufacturer owned distribution centers as retail sales points. To force an independently owned distributor to hold to an arbitrary fixed price point they determine is, on its face, price fixing, plain and simple. You can call it what you want but that is the bottom line. I feel it harms the ability of the end use customer to find his or her best available price and should not be practiced. _________________ http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=807494
Montage M7, Pa5x76, Nautilus, PA3Xle, Oasys 76, Mini-Moog, EMU Audity 2000, Motion Sound KBR 3D amp, Presonus and Reaper DAW W/Tannoy Reveal 501A powered monitors |
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megamarkd Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Aug 2017 Posts: 635 Location: Australia
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 2:18 am Post subject: |
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It would be nice if we could have a situation where there is a "sale" tag on almost every product from particular vendors when their "sale" is based on the fact they have lopped $50 off the RRP. It's not on sale if you never charged the RRP to start with. _________________ Stuff I'm using: Umm right now, well there's a Volca Drum, a Micro Freak, an ADX-1, a Pulse, a Blofeld, a UNO Drum, KeyStep/Beatstep Pro/Keystep Pro (one of each), a Circuit, a LiveTrak L-12 and this nonsense: The Brief-case as it was about a bit over a year ago (the the complete ridiculous GAS monster collection here)and here |
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Bachus Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 3127
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:33 am Post subject: |
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dfahrner wrote: | Bachus wrote: | ...Anyway, a good example is the Yamaha Genos... production costs < 200. Sales prices 4000, that definately sounds fishy to me... |
Where does this cost-of-production figure come from, Bachus? Does it include parts costs? Production facility overhead? ??? It's hard to believe that such a large, complex device can be produced that cheaply, particularly when the quantity is so low as compared to mass-market commercial products like laptops and TVs...
df |
Its just the prices of the physical parts..
Comes from an Indonesian site..
And it shows in every aspect of the Genos
- cheep plastic buildquallity
- low light, low resolution screen
- simple knobs instead of rotary encoders
- No high end processing power, but still the same old 2 decades old in their main design processors... imagine what a single ARM could have done for these kind of instruments.. or just a real stream processor..
everything breathes saving as much dollars on the hardware parts. _________________ Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
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