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Mixdowns: Saving to RAM vs. Disk?

 
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Track 7



Joined: 22 Sep 2016
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:02 pm    Post subject: Mixdowns: Saving to RAM vs. Disk? Reply with quote

I use the procedure in this thread for bouncing all tracks to a stereo WAV file. With my Kronos set to sample to RAM (the default setting), it will not allow me to record a mixdown longer than 10 minutes. But if I change "Save to" from RAM to Disk, the time is much longer (80 minutes).

Is there any downside to bouncing to Disk vs. RAM? I need to mix some longer orchestral pieces (10 to 12 minutes long) and wonder if I'll be OK using the Disk setting rather than the RAM setting.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

save to DISK

You can always install a 2nd , larger SSD

Plus you can move completed Songs to USB
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Track 7



Joined: 22 Sep 2016
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I'll set it to Disk. I've been using RAM all along and have had no trouble moving songs to USB. Is there some other advantage to the RAM setting? Why is it the default if Disk is better? Just curious.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Track 7 wrote:
OK, I'll set it to Disk. I've been using RAM all along and have had no trouble moving songs to USB. Is there some other advantage to the RAM setting? Why is it the default if Disk is better? Just curious.


I think the quality is equal, RAM vs SSD. Its because Korg has mastered streaming from SSD. I believe this is 1 of the greatest features of Kronos.

With the Preload + samples, you don't have much headroom with RAM.
vs SSD memory.

By utilizing DISK, you preserve RAM memory.

If you want to use RAM all the time, feel free. But eventually, you might hit a wall during a long recording session.

I am not a technical expert, someone more knowledgeable can speak to your question.
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Track 7



Joined: 22 Sep 2016
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, that makes sense. I think I've gotten away with RAM because my songs have been short. Now that I'm making some longer recordings, it's time to switch to SSD. Glad there's the option.
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19naia
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its all tied into Korgs Sampling features.
Korg started off with Sampling as the only audio files you could work with and then later added audio tracks to Sequencer and did so via the sampling route which was how you got audio tracks to play in sequencers of korg models predating audio track fitted models like Kronos.
Korg triton extreme had less than 1gb of RAM for sampling and all other uses. And it also had no real audio tracks but did have a way of using sampler in sequencer mode to record audio and play back with sequencer to simulate having audio tracks. That was all RAM. It had an external flash drive option but that was limited in what kind of streaming you could do.

The Gradual step ups through successive models have really been just making old functionions work more expansively ,from having more capacity to new features grafted on to old ones.
So Audio tracks came in and sort of grafted on to Sampling mode audio track simulating functions ,which was already accessible in the other modes before later korg models with true adudio tracks came out. So It did audio tracks from the the foundation laid by Korg sampling mode.

When SSD came with Kronos, that was a game changer but still all it did was add a huge alternative to what had always been RAM.
RAM was historically the only option, so by heritage RAM is default. SSD came second as a new and seriously contender in the way of options.
SSD came primarily to replace old style disk(disk mode/media mode) which goes back to the days before true audio tracks in Korg workstations. So SSD is default when it comes to disk mode because that is its heritage, stemming from device storage and not streaming sounds. But because of what SSD has in speed streaming capabilities, it then became an option to replace RAM or streaming sounds.

So why was RAM not entirely replaced when SSD easily has so much space and can stream so well? RAM is time tested and SSD does not beat out RAM capabilities, it only steps up to the level of what ram does. Even Laptops of the highest order will not give up RAM with all that SSD can do.
Maybe a day will come when this changes but when you look in program mode and the samples behind them, Some are limited to RAM only. You can go into Global mode and change settings to have EX library samples stream from disk to program note play. But i won’t be surprised if there are some that do not offer option of streaming from disk. My User Samples ar limited to RAM because i nevr found an option to stream them from disk.

Berlin Grand and other Premium pianos out of SGX engine, they have no option but to stream from disk. So if you have Berlin Grand and another Premium piano playing, they both tax the processor for disk streaming and kronos has a disk monitoring light to follow disk streaming during play. They will not stream from RAM.
It is nice to have the option to save RAM space for samples that can only use RAM and use Disk streaming for the rest, but also the option to move all that you can into RAM streaming when too many heavy duty disk streamed sounds are in the mix. Managing processor work load which Kronos can easily load up to the limit.
Usually the limit shows itself in polyphony issues but polyphony is still tied into what the maximum number of notes are streaming and where they are streaming from. Managing polyphony and streaming both help maximize what can be run on Kronos without crashing or dropping notes. Even FX have to be mamaged to not over load the processing behind that. Every device has its limits and the more flexible ones are designed so ipenly that you are allowed to lush th device limits and find them the hard way. Hard to find a hand calculator’s limits but easy to find a MackBook Pro’s limits or a korg Kronos limit because they are open palate that you can pile up until it starts dropping off the plate. Just a matter of understaning the partitions on the palate and movimg things around for optimal fit based on what you have cooked up for serving(performance).

All of the 9 synth engines have their own polyphony limits rather than one standard for all of kronos programs and most of them don’t even stream from RAM or disk. Just tone generator.
SGX premium pianos stream from disk only because there isn’t enough total RAM for the sample sets behind just the premium pianos alone. RAM is limited to 4gb with 1gb reserved for what Kronos requires. SGX can have a single piano with more than 4gb of samples behind its notes.

There are places where you only have the optiom for RAM and places where you only have the option for SSD/disk. When one or the other place is maxed out, all streaming that has the option to be in disk or RAM streaming, can then be managed by deciding best streaming option to take strain off of whatever is closer to maximum capacity or load. Sequencer especially with Audio tracks streaming and then the midi tracks also stream via the samokes being driven, samples that are audio based and streamed either from disk or RAM. Most of the synth engines stream the tone generator, very basic old fashioned means of sound, heritage of original old school synths grandfathered into all modern synths.
The SSD, RAM and tine generator all have their benefits and unique timeless qualities and thats why they all persist rather than having one make the other obsolete.
I have to admit i am one of the many who were drawn to Kronos or trying to have it all in one. I believed it could do it “ALL”... Turns out after getting one, it at least comes close enough for my purposes.
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Track 7



Joined: 22 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info. Very interesting. I too have been satisfied with the Kronos' all-in-one capabilities. I feel like I push it to its limits sometimes, but it always comes through. I haven't needed to use a computer for music in years, which was exactly my hope with the Kronos.
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Mike Conway
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Joined: 28 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Track 7 wrote:
Is there some other advantage to the RAM setting? Why is it the default if Disk is better? Just curious.


Recording (sampling) to RAM is limited to 16 bit.

Recording to DISK can be 24 bit, which means more dynamic range. I notice more pronounced bass response in my 24 bit recordings.

Also, I have a lot of sample material that I stream to RAM. Recording to disk allows me plenty of recording space, without interrupting my sample libraries.
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