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Request More Direct Styles Bank For Korg Pa4X
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Hungnguyen



Joined: 08 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:52 pm    Post subject: Request More Direct Styles Bank For Korg Pa4X Reply with quote

As a Fan of Korg Pa4X, I'd like to request More Direct Styles Bank Location For Korg Pa4X,
Korg can develop as Direct 1, Direct 2...ect.... or Korg can add more banks location on the current OS
-Why I am saying this because I have a lot of custom styles for each song that I made and the User location and the current Direct Bank will be filled very soon.

Thank you for listening!
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pa4x_user
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is fascinating to hear how there are so many different needs from arrangers.
More DIRECT links would come way down in my list but I can fully understand that if you are a "one-style-a-song" user then that would be a very good upgrade.
At least it is very quick to switch DIRECT links so I guess you would need to carefully organise the styles so that switching didn't have to happen too often.

Cheers
Pete Very Happy
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duby2
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:41 am    Post subject: more Reply with quote

More direct styles banks is great ,but for me I play 50 songs at a 4 hour job, and if i need more styles , on abreak it take me 30 sec to load a whole new set .when I had the korg i3,, it just had 4 user styles ..
I like to know how many songs do you play at a job, that last 4 or 8 hours. or do some of you just want to keep ever style you ever had and do you use 1248 styles a job . if i do more them 4 hours and do more then 60 songs ,, i would get a pay raise...or i turn into a DJ with a usb hard drive and a laptop.
and yes i would like more style bank ... but.
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Hungnguyen



Joined: 08 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To karmathanever,
To Manager the Direct USB User is quite simple,
I used to do this: Currently, we have only one direct usb, all my styles will be installed on it and I can write a note on each song in the songbook that it belongs to Direct USB 1 , If we have Direct 2 USB...then I will make a note on the songbook that style belongs to Direct USB 2, from there I can access it easily.

To Duby 2,

If you have a show and know what's song the Singer will be performing that is simple enough, But what's about they (Strangers) called you for a birthday party with all stranger people and they sing all kind of songs, that means they're expected you and your Pa4X plays like a Karaoke machine ..That's why we have to make a lot of styles for each famous songs around the world that we think the people will be love to sing at any occasions ...That's the reason why we need more spaces to contains the styles...
- To create a style that saves you a lot during your shows for sure.
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korg1
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ι work the same way as well....either for English or Greek songs!
My favorite and user style banks are full, my Direct set full too. I might still have about 10 entries free.
Forgot to mention that my factory banks are full as well ......

That would be easy for Os update i guess,to have if not unlimited style pages,at least the double ones.
No need for extra Dir 2 set .Just adding more pages to the existing banks would be great
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Hungnguyen



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

korg1 wrote:
Ι work the same way as well....either for English or Greek songs!
My favorite and user style banks are full, my Direct set full too. I might still have about 10 entries free.
Forgot to mention that my factory banks are full as well ......

That would be easy for Os update i guess,to have if not unlimited style pages,at least the double ones.
No need for extra Dir 2 set .Just adding more pages to the existing banks would be great


Exactly, I am on the same boat, With the people who know how to create styles like you and me, Everything is full of styles that we have created that's why need more spaces..If it can be read direct from USB as Yamaha then we don't need to talk about this any more.

Thanks
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hungnguyen wrote:
... what's about they (Strangers) called you for a birthday party with all stranger people and they sing all kind of songs, that means they're expected you and your Pa4X plays like a Karaoke machine ..That's why we have to make a lot of styles for each famous songs around the world that we think the people will be love to sing at any occasions ...That's the reason why we need more spaces to contains the styles...


I think it's not necessary to equip an arranger keyboard like a karaoke machine and also can not see a reason why we need more memory for styles.

In order to create many styles for each famous music around the world that we think people will enjoy singing at every opportunity, playing it with a karaoke machine would require a thousandfold of the current storage capacity of Pa-keyboards.

Entertainers already could fulfill musical wishes with a Pa3x to perform EVERY well known title with the existing amount of styles (eg of a Pa3x with 600 Factory + 480 Favorite + 120 UserStyles). If he could not, that was a personal shortcoming, but had nothing to do with the capacity of the arranger keyboard. Required for this, of course, was a well organized memory for a quick access, so memory had not to be crammed with redundant and useless data.

I think the same applies to the Pa4x, because if an entertainer's supply of more than 1,200 styles (624 + 480 + 144) is not enough for his performance, then that's not enough for a thousand times this stock. But that's probably no question how many Direct sets you can have in access, but how carefully 1200 styles are organised in the existing memory for quick access, to be able to musically accompany people that will enjoy singing.

Of course it may be beneficial to have more memory available - but there is no urgent need for it.
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korg1
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

siebenhirter wrote:


I think it's not necessary to equip an arranger keyboard like a karaoke machine and also can not see a reason why we need more memory for styles.

In order to create many styles for each famous music around the world that we think people will enjoy singing at every opportunity, playing it with a karaoke machine would require a thousandfold of the current storage capacity of Pa-keyboards.

Entertainers already could fulfill musical wishes with a Pa3x to perform EVERY well known title with the existing amount of styles (eg of a Pa3x with 600 Factory + 480 Favorite + 120 UserStyles). If he could not, that was a personal shortcoming, but had nothing to do with the capacity of the arranger keyboard. Required for this, of course, was a well organized memory for a quick access, so memory had not to be crammed with redundant and useless data.

I think the same applies to the Pa4x, because if an entertainer's supply of more than 1,200 styles (624 + 480 + 144) is not enough for his performance, then that's not enough for a thousand times this stock. But that's probably no question how many Direct sets you can have in access, but how carefully 1200 styles are organised in the existing memory for quick access, to be able to musically accompany people that will enjoy singing.

Of course it may be beneficial to have more memory available - but there is no urgent need for it.




I do work with quite many singers,different genres depending the occation,and not all factory styles are working great for specific songs.
I use over 1200 Greek styles,and i can play the triple of songs or more using just 45 of them,it is just annoying to play so many songs with the same style even if they share the same patterns....

So,for someone who doesn't need much or plays the same songs every night ,factory resources are great. The same for those who don't mind about song's arrangement or for top professional gig,that works too.

But for the rest of us,more styles' entries is even more important than having more sample memory.

I've been using my Trton Extreme with 64mb ,and it still rocks.....ok,i can load 10times more on my pa4x,so what? i didn't even buy pa4x for it's sample memory rather than it;s ability to load more styles.
My old pa800 really sounded better than any pa3x i met,and that's not my words, they are pa3's owners words.
So,yes my friend ,not everybody's needs are the same,that's true...but what you don't need doesn't mean that you won't need it tomorrow, or that other's don't need it.

For example: I like that pa4x can play mp3's, but i hate that i have to quit a style or a midi file in order to chose an mp3, i can't do it on the fly ,jumping non-stop from a style to an mp3 vice versa.
For you,that might work ok ,but i prefer to use my mp3's backing tracks as multi-tracks ,or on the fly....For that i use a multitrack player ,or an app on my smartphone,so i have them on the fly and with cue.....

Everything is a matter of prespective after all
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:35 pm    Post subject: Amount of memory for Pa4x-Styles Reply with quote

korg1 wrote:
.. Everything is a matter of prespective after all ..


... that it is really.
*
korg1 wrote:
.. I do work with quite many singers,different genres depending the occation,and not all factory styles are working great for specific songs. ..


... but in each case it is most important to optimize an instrument for its personal needs. If some or most factory styles are not working great for your specific songs - throw them away to make room for the styles suitable for your specific songs.

That will be the first step to get well organized environment for each musician regardless of ones workflow, regardless of amount of singers or kind of genres to make music.

Doing the same with "Favorite" and "UserStyles" and there is an amount of more than 1200 Styles in Pa4x well organzid for ones needs. For Styles not working great, no space should be wasted in memory.

However, a user has to organize this himself - if he wants to have an environment optimized for his circumstances, he may also have to remove some of the factory styles he does not use (why not ?).
*
Even if one need 1200 Styles for direct access within a session, the Pa4x file system can be used efficiently for a quick exchange of styles. For this one chooses the most efficient loading procedures, because in a time-critical situation one will hardly reload individual style items, but instead perform a "Load All Style Types" of a set, that also should be sorted according to personal criteria.

With sets prepared for that - which are very fast reloadable - you do not get embarrassed quickly and therefore I consider the number of styles stored in memory to be more than adequate.
*
In the above example I did not even mention the styles that can be stored in a direct set. That styles - additional available to internal memory - also only can be used optimally if tightly organized according to the personal workflow.
*
So I still think - there are no questions how many Direct sets you can access in or adding a page to the existing banks, but how carefully styles are organized for quick access, to be able to musically accompany people that will enjoy singing.
*
korg1 wrote:
.. like that pa4x can play mp3's, but i hate that i have to quit a style or a midi file in order to chose an mp3, i can't do it on the fly, jumping non-stop from a style to an mp3 vice versa ..


If factory, favorite, user style and DirectSet style banks are full - nothing will change that dilemna, except to reorganize existing dataset with usable styles, to get some more free entries.

korg1 wrote:
.. favorite and user style banks are full, my Direct set full too. I might still have about 10 entries free. Forgot to mention that my factory banks are full as well ..... ..

*
korg1 wrote:
.... i didn't even buy Pa4x for it's sample memory rather than its ability to load more styles .....


... this ability exists - but the organization of data for personal needs can not be delivered with the factory settings! To manage environment of a parameterizable instrument is an users responsibility.
*
korg1 wrote:
.. for the rest of us ,more styles' entries is even more important than having more sample memory.....


No, or maybe - as you mentioned above "Everything is a matter of perspective after all".
*
korg1 wrote:
....Just adding more pages to the existing banks would be great ...


Of course - but only useful if they are not filled with worthless, unused data by users
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you didn't get the point:

It's easy to make a gig of 40 songs,pre-chosen ones ,even a 100 songs ,but
it has nothing to do with organizing.

For session musicians like me or others,it's important not to have my styles splitted into sets ,that would be easy yes.... i could have all my greek songs in one set, all my english songs at another set....etc....
But what i f i need to go somewhere to play greek and english songs together? i will switch between sets in realtime?no way....that doesn't work ,especially if you want to do a non-stop gig,trust me on this.

My styles are organized in banks not only by genre but by BPM as well ,and all banks are renamed by it's Genre,so my set up is well organized i can tell. Banks are splitted on screen ,left are all Male's styles and right are all Women's as well .

i also use many factory styles,and my songbook contains all styles English or Greek.....(haven't added Hebrew or other songs yet) , So erasing factory styles is not an option,unless for someone who decides not to learn any more songs ever,or doesn't need specific genres so that would be an option.....

As i said...Everything is a matter of prespective after all ,depending someone's needs. Mine happens to be more than others due the fact that i play Greek music too,and sometimes i have to use over 300 songs in a gig,that's true,especially if are working in medleys .....Things are not always simple,but that's just the fun part
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

korg1 wrote:
For session musicians like me or others,it's important not to have my styles splitted into sets ,that would be easy yes.... i could have all my greek songs in one set, all my english songs at another set....etc....
But what i f i need to go somewhere to play greek and english songs together? i will switch between sets in realtime?no way....that doesn't work ,especially if you want to do a non-stop gig,trust me on this.
My styles are organized in banks not only by genre but by BPM as well ,and all banks are renamed by it's Genre,so my set up is well organized i can tell. Banks are splitted on screen ,left are all Male's styles and right are all Women's as well .

@korg1

I am seriously curious as to why you would not use the PA4X's SETLIST feature.

Cheers

Pete Very Happy
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject: Amount of memory for Pa4x-Styles Reply with quote

korg1 wrote:
..it's easy to make a gig ... it has nothing to do with organizing. .. ..


In my understanding, it's primarily a matter of organization to get quick, direct access to a large number of elements needed in a session or in a gig. Pa-Keyboards seem to be well suited for this.

korg1 wrote:
.. for session musicians .. it's important not to have styles splitted into sets .... i will switch between sets in realtime? no way....that doesn't work, especially if you want to do a non-stop gig ... sometimes i have to use over 300 songs in a gig, that's true,especially if are working in medleys .....Things are not always simple, but that's just the fun part ..


If you unnecessarily carry all the factory styles for stage performance just because you're worried about not being able to evolve without those styles, then I'm not surprised if you need extra storage space for styles.

It still is understandable, if you do not want to change a set during the stage performance. But in testmode it is simple to change a set, to leave or load less suitable FactoryStyles that only resides in memory for learning any more songs with this.

But you do not have to carry this styles in memory for stage, if you can not use them for your specific songs. As you said, "such factory styles are not working great" - that really is ballast on stage anyway and take precious place for styles that you preferits for your performances.

I think the pa4x has enough capacity for a session musicians but always too little capacity to take on any ballast that you do not need and do not use during sessions.

@pete: .. SETLIST feature increase the number of style performances, well suited to better organize a stage performance. The problem getting a larger number of styles it does not solve.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

karmathanever ,of course i use set lists,over 80 till now.
Of course i use the same styles in varius tempo's with different mix and /or different sounds.

There are thousands or million of songs though which have a specific arrangment, breaks,intrument phrases etc.....that's why my need for creating a style per song is . Of course this happens for complex songs or specific ones.... You have to hear the difference between using a general genre factory style and a specific style for each song.

If you play at a piano bar or lobby,or a fully programed gig of 40 songs,then all you need is less than the 1/3 of the factory styles,not even those....

But if you play everyday with different bands,different singers,in different or mixed languages,which means some more thousands of songs, and most of the times you just don't know which songs they will ask,or if you play quite many genres depending the gig ,then you will see that factory or user or dir set is just not enough.


Greek music has over 50-70 common genres,each one has countless variations.
Make the math and you will see that you need at least x5 times the factory banks for that.

So it doesn't have anything to do with style organizing....as i said my set is organized quite well, by sex,by genre,by bpm ,so that i can work with it on the fly even without songbook,which i ALWAYS use with setlists.

Siebenhirter ,using only some factory styles ,and filling the empty ones ,is a problem due to future Os updates,but i do it anyway,trying to avoid erasing factory ones....

For me,after working so many years with bands of 17-20persons ,it's always hard to work and play the same boring styles just because they match a bit the 90% of discography,or use the same breaks all over....that's not what i like, that's why i want each style to be unique,with specific intros and breaks and endings,specific mix and color......

Just think that all world's music uses drums,bass,guitar,keys etc....Imagine listening on the radio every song you know,using with the same drumkit sound ,the same guitar sound,the same bass,the same breaks and tuttis,the same intro's and endings.....not nice,don't you think? -Though i prefer in live gigs all instruments to be as close as possible so it sounds like a real band,but playng the same intro's,the same patterns,the same breaks and fills,the same endings is not something that i call professional or even nice to hear at all night......

Some others just don't mind,they just want to hear a beat,whatever beat somewhere at the background while they play ,it doesn't matter for them which one as long as it is 4/4.That's fine with me......i am not just that kind of performer

I wouldn't mind demonstrating you why i use so many styles,and not the same all over again ,but that would take up to 4hours just for the intro's to listen,plus you wouldn't believe your ears that this comes from a pa keyboard ,even the older models...

Greetings.....
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:58 pm    Post subject: Amount of memory for Pa4x-Styles Reply with quote

korg1 wrote:
... if you play everyday ... which means some more thousands of songs, and most of the times you just don't know which songs they will ask ... then you will see that factory or user or dir set is just not enough ....


Therefore, it is eminently important that exactly these areas of the instrument are rid of ballast and really only contain usable material for the stage performance.

Amateur musicians and musicians with modest demands leave the factory-present styles and Sb entries in the Pa system and also otherwise many unstructured ballast without reorganization in the internal memory, as long as the available storage capacity is sufficient.

But you are using your arranger keyboard as a session musician in style-play mode, without universal styles, but mostly with song-specific styles. For this, the replacement of the factory-supplied songbook as well as the replacement of the factory-made styles is recommended for the following reasons:
- factory styles have the largest share of the storage system
- The song selection in the SB seldom fits the stage program
- the song-specific factory styles do not fit the stage program
- the universal factory styles do not fit the stage program

The factory-supplied songbook and style data are just examples and patterns for getting to know the instrument, but not for a session musician's stage performance.

Therefore I would not leave the available storage capacity full with this ballast.

korg1 wrote:
... using only some factory styles and filling the empty ones, is a problem due to future Os updates, but i do it anyway, trying to avoid erasing factory ones ....


Not just some factory styles or the empty ones - the entire memory should be optimized for the stage appearance.

For an OS update, it is not a problem whether factory or user styles and associated sb entries are in the memory. Only the sound data (PCM samples, multisamples and user PCGs) have a fixed memory space, to which all sounds of the realtime and background tracks are linked. Only these sound locations can not be changed by changing sets, load-all or OS updates.

For the actions on the stage, the memory is too precious to take there test data and factory data - especially if you already have capacity problems anyway.
*
PS: Factory / Favorite styles are protected to avoid overwriting them if you need them. If you do not need them, then simply unprotect this area and remove them to use any of these styles as they were user styles. If accidentally factory data should be deleted, changed or overwritten, simply reload backup data.
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