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Infinite Response's new Poly AT Midi Controller now shipping
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John Hendry
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Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 411
Location: I'm in the process of moving...

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It’s hardware but it’s been so long since I thought about it I had to look it up. But found nothing right off under searches on standard midi or midi key velocity control, etc. But I have a picture of it in some dealer literature somewhere in boxes and looking deeper I think it’s a Bézier or other curve used in the time domain of the algorithm used that was explained to me setting up the Elka MK series of Poly AT midi controllers when I was a dealer and I never questioned it... till you asked and my memory forgot to remember. I assume it was and still is standard practice but I don’t write midi algorithms or software to say much if anything and would have to pass it on to someone here like Dan that does.

The VAX77 requires some comprehension on how it implements Poly AT too and I really wish I could have tried it out. The current midi standard (with mistakes never corrected due to a translation error into Japanese) has always had limited dynamic range and I’m not knowledgeable enough to say how the quantization problems are dealt with now. I just know from playing the resolution needs to be higher and allow softer playing and a higher velocity speed response as well as the baud rate increased meaning and it’s time to modernize the entire midi standard to take advantage of today’s computers and advanced electronics and do it right. Van is a gold mine that showed up just in time to teach some talented old dogs some new tricks;-)

IMO the real problem hanging on to the original outdated midi standard is COMPATIBILITY with older AND current midi gear made last month that gets left out… to become outdated overnight … but the longer the manufactures wait… the more current products will get left out making the problem bigger instead of fixing it.

It reminds me of the RC hobby’s multitude of battery connectors where only one connector is needed to lower battery costs and increase battery selections, but no one wants to solder on new connectors or use a simple adaptor to create a much better standardized connecter that will decrease battery inventory numbers in half to lower costs and make batteries fresher so you don’t get a “new” 2 year old battery waiting for someone who needs a HXT connector instead of a Deans. I think if you asked every human what to put in a pot to make some tea you might start a war before everyone would agree water might work.
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psionic311
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Joined: 14 Nov 2014
Posts: 654
Location: Orlando, Florida USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got an email from Infinite Response a couple weeks ago. They've finished their rounds of beta testing with volunteer assemblers. There's a couple process improvements and a new set of shims that will guarantee uniform key height, to avoid that "buck tooth" appearance that is caused by slight height variations due to 3rd party manufactured steel arms, to type and amount of grease applied, etc. IR's attention to detail is taking time, but hopefully worth it in the long run, based off the testimonials of IR's Vax77 owners.

There's also a Reddit subforum where the beta assemblers are logging their daily build progress. They're offering practical advice from lessons learned while assembling. They've also tossed around the idea of varying elastomer length to simulate acoustic hammer response and a simulated graded action feel.

I've got a good deal of time saved to take off of work. Really looking forward to assembling and customizing mine for my rig. It's going to be a Frankenstein mishmash of VaxMIDI, guts from a couple Microns, Kurzweil Expressionmate ribbon controller, an SE70 or 2, and case/shelf for housing MIDI/audio/power cords. At least that's the plan...
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John Hendry
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Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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Location: I'm in the process of moving...

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the update... I've just been waiting it out on the sidelines as the kinks get worked out. Getting the action right isn't easy and changing the elastomer length will affect the grease needed just as an oil filled shock absorber needs different oil with different springs so I think it will be an ongoing process of experimentation to see what works best and I'd stick with an ungraded action to start with and get that right.

Seems like some people building them are not all that experienced in building things and that is not helping any as removing the mold flashing on some of the hammers is time consuming but not hard to do, nor is getting the elastomers the same exact length. There is some finesse and piano technician skills required to build a keyboard and get it right as well as decisions to be made regarding preferences such as working with the felt. Based on what I read I'd use a different felt and look into other options to get the after touch how I want it.
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Look what you get when you subtract the 1st harmonic comma from the 2nd that makes things heavy.... but .20e-5 isn't G. That time got stuck in a hole.
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psionic311
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Joined: 14 Nov 2014
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Location: Orlando, Florida USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I've had my unboxed VAXMIDI for a couple weeks now. This weekend I've got time, so the adventure begins...

One of the first completely assembled and working demo videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBEyNYPNlKA
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John Hendry
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Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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Location: I'm in the process of moving...

PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:39 am    Post subject: Shoe Goo vs. CA glue Reply with quote

Cool.... take your time. And BTW a glue to consider that has some great attributes for things not melted by its solvent is Shoe Goo. Thinned down to whatever viscosity is needed I've found outside of its use on soft balsa it can generally outperform both CA and Epoxy on other RC model applications and is easier to work with. (in a ventilated area)

For gluing with precision and at a consistent thickness working with layers I would use Shoe Goo over CA as CA often has its moments of reminding you it's an "instant" CA glue that was first called "Hot Stuff" because it gets so hot and sometimes "foams" (usually where there's a fingerprint to heat up) and when that happens between two layers you have a bump you can't sand away. I've found CA to be of great use but when using it to glue two relatively large flat surfaces together I would expect to see some noticeable differences in bond area thickness to occur due to foaming and part assembly differences in CA "set time". With Shoe Goo there is no "instant" set time to stop parts from being pressed together and no heat foaming so you can usually calculate your solvent ratio needed "by eye" to thin it down. But for repetition to repeat making keys where you want to match up glue ratio viscosity I'd measure it by weight testing it to find the ideal ratio for applying wet.

As for which is the better glue take 3 pairs of old shoes falling apart at the seams with holes in the soles and use CA on one pair to rebuild them, epoxy on another, and Shoe Goo on the 3rd and wait 30 days for full curing. You will see the CA and epoxy reconstruction fails and can't deal with the flexing on the sole of a shoe... but the Shoe Goo will hold on like part of the mold often increasing in strength over the original shoe when new depending on application weight applied to increase mileage.

Shoe Goo was designed to do one of the toughest glue jobs there is... glue a old shoe together and make it's sole like new. It works well and is one of the latest glues to be invented and it's no surprise most people only associate it with fixing old shoes. But it's a great glue for other applications as well when thinned down as needed.

I used it with Kevlar thread fuzzed up to remount the metal blade in an old coffee bean grinder three years ago where after the blade mount shattered the old plastic center had one piece large enough to hold the blade where it's supposed to be so I just molded what was missing with Shoe Goo and Kevlar and reinforced the entire center section making it far stronger than new while saving myself 12 bucks on a new coffee bean grinder that wasn't in stock for the morning coffee, and I used it to make a bottom door seal to keep the bugs from the garden out and that's been a couple of years holding up like a shoe would. But I also just made some custom rear tail lights for my 1/8 scale FPV Truggy and its front bumper extension used to mount the head lights and they look like they were factory molded. I use Shoe Goo for just about everything that needs to be glued followed by flexible CA, CA, and epoxy where more work time is needed. Anyway I'm sure I might find Shoe Goo useful building a keyboard as well and would expect it to be over looked as an alternative method of gluing with it's own characteristic of shrinkage that avoids glue buildup and won't foam up like CA.

Too bad the guy's video is using that fisheye lens as I wanted to see how his VAXMIDI turned out. And no comment about what kind of midi keyboard it is... but he seems happy with it, and it looks like it's working well but without trying it personally we'll have to wait for a few more to be built... and reviewed. So carry on... looks like you have a shot at the first build review here so keep us updated. You'd think the guy would be excited to say something about it...
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Look what you get when you subtract the 1st harmonic comma from the 2nd that makes things heavy.... but .20e-5 isn't G. That time got stuck in a hole.
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megamarkd
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Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought you'd turned into a spambot at first glance. Shoe Goo is one of the best adhesives on earth. Another handy product is Inox.
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John Hendry
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inox makes lubricants correct? Which one were you thinking of? Looks like Sears sells some Inox products in the US online. Been looking for a dry Teflon spray for control rods and linkages that doesn't react with EPP foam and paint like "Blaster" type dry Teflon lubes do.
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Look what you get when you subtract the 1st harmonic comma from the 2nd that makes things heavy.... but .20e-5 isn't G. That time got stuck in a hole.
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megamarkd
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Joined: 15 Aug 2017
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Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, lubes that won't corrode, stain or melt stuff. Dunno if they do a dry lube but they have a food grade version of the standard product (if you are doubling your synth keybed as a toaster).
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John Hendry
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Location: I'm in the process of moving...

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

psionic311 wrote:
So I've had my unboxed VAXMIDI for a couple weeks now. This weekend I've got time, so the adventure begins...

One of the first completely assembled and working demo videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBEyNYPNlKA


So how did the build go? Been deep into legal stuff and other things eating away at time but needing a new controller comes to mind every evening I turn on the Kronos.

Let us know;-)
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