Korg Forums

[Ron]

I play just for myself these days and I'm certainly not a vocalist. But once in a while I like to pretend that I am using the voice processor. I recently had a chance to hear a demo of the VP in a Genos. It was absolutely outstanding. And I think it was just a stock factory preset.

I have read that several of you think the 4X VP is even better than the Genos. That has not been my experience so I'm guessing I'm not using it correctly. Would any of you be willing to share your settings? Global Voice Preset settings, favorite Presets (including edits), anything at all that you would be willing to share.

One specific problem I have is that my doubled voice or maybe a harmony voice seems to jump between the notes in the chord creating sort of a warbling effect. Too much pitch correction?

Also, I can't seem to find why a songbook selection brings up the global preset rather than the preset in the songbook entry. What am I missing?

Help and suggestions greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Ron
_________________
Pa4X, KronosX, BIAB, Cakewalk

[karmathanever]

Hi Ron

TC Helicon is definitely better than Yamaha's offering for me.
Having owned both, the Yam does not compare although Genos VP is an improvement.

It is a shame that there is not a quality demo of the TC Helicon on the PA4X but the PA3X demo is still valid and good:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybQ3K3hzO8E

I use me PA4X VP a lot using several presets. Not experienced any warbling - are you deliberately using the pitch correction?
Pitch correction can give you that "yodelling" effect depending on how much work it has to do.
In the Mic Setup you can specifiy the sublty of the actual correction (page 517 in latest manual)
My band doesn't use pitch correction but I might give it another try.
Re: SONGBOOK - see bottom of page 529 - should answer your question.
Make sure your settings are as you want them at the time of writing the SONGBOOK entry (which I am sure you do).

Cheers

Pete
_________________
PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
------------------------------------------------------------------
## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music
------------------------------------------------------------------

[miden]

Actually Pete, if the vocal level going in to the VH is not high enough, for example when sing a soft ballad, it does produce a "warbling" type effect. The engine is trying to pitch the harmonies from a really quiet input so it sort of wanders around pitches in an effort to get to the right one.

The VH on the Korg is also quite noisy, especially when using a condenser.

It is better than the Yammie, but nothing like even my Harmony M pedal, which I'd still be using if it wasn't for the extra power wart, cables and setup yada yada yada's, hahaha!

[Ron]

Thanks for the replies.

Found what I was doing wrong on the Songbook presets. Thanks Pete.

Here are my global mic settings. I'm open to suggestions.

Global Voice Preset: Chord (Harm Off) and then, of course I turn the harmony and doubler on as needed.

Global Settings:
Lead Mute - Off (Not checked)
Lead Effect Send - Post
Voice Vibrato Boost - Boost
Pitch Bend - 10
Pitch Corr - 20%
Lead Level - -5db
Pan - C
EQ: Adaptive - On (checked), Shape 50%, Gain - 2, Warmth - On (checked)
Comp/DeEss: Adaptive On (checked), Comp 50%, DeEss 70%
Gate: Adaptive On (checked), Lead Atten Off, Harm Atten Off

Have any of you found it necessary to edit the Chord (Harm Off) parameters from the facotry settings? If so, would you mind sharing?

For info, I'm using a Shure SM58 Mic. I believe it's a dynamic type.

Thanks.
_________________
Pa4X, KronosX, BIAB, Cakewalk

[the_boss81]

I like too the VP on my Pa4X. I think it sounds cpmparable good like the external TC Helicon devices
_________________
Sorry 4 my English - I only speak Polish & German & really like my Pa5X

[Chuck]

Just my two cents from an old guy. I have been experimenting with the on board harmonizer for years and find that your really have to get very close to the mic and push your voice to stop the warbling. Kind of hard to do when you are singing a soft song. I started using arrangers when the PA1 came out, now I have the 4. They still need to do more to get the harmony and the drums up to our expectations. Sorry I could not have helped more.

Chuck, Ohio, USA
_________________
PA4X & PA900
Bose L1 Model II w/ToneMatch
Neumann KBS 105 Mic
Old fingers

[Ron]

Chuck and Miden - Thanks for the posts. Always good to know you are not the only one having an issue. Your comments about the low level causing the warbling have me wondering if the harmony notes themselves might be causing the problem … sort of like feedback.

It seems to me that if the mic is only hearing the singer, the software ought to be able to determine the pitch and hold it. On the other hand, if we sing softly (or have the mic too far away) the software might also hear a harmony note and get confused. I know the cardioid sensitivity of the SM58 is supposed to address this issue but still I play in a relatively small room and have speakers in each corner to create sort of a surround set up. And, of course, I like the volume fairly high.

Can't do it immediately but I'm going to try experimenting with my speakers (turning some off) and also borrow a couple of different mics.

Comments and suggestions appreciated.

PS - Chuck, you are not the only "old guy" on the forum. Might be interesting to see the ages of all the forum members. I'm 72.
_________________
Pa4X, KronosX, BIAB, Cakewalk

[Ron]

Sorry for posting again so quickly but I just did a little searching. Seems like the warbling problem is well known. Here's a couple of relevant excerpts from Acoustic Guitar forum.

"The harmonizer doesn't just try to harmonize the guitar sound which bleeds into the vocal mic, it does harmonize it. That will be obvious if you record both guitar and vocal tracks and play back the vocal track with the guitar track muted. The warble thing becomes apparent when the level of harmonized guitar in the vocal signal becomes sufficiently high in comparison to the level of the direct-from-pickup guitar signal.

In order to minimize guitar bleed into the vocal mic (when using the Harmony-G) I do three things:

1) sing the harmonized vocal assertively

2) mic the vocal very closely and on axis (as opposed to coming at the mic from the side)

These first two things allow me to use less gain on the vocal mic (and pick up less guitar sound) than I'd need if I was miking at a distance and/or singing softly.

3) use a vocal mic which has a tight hyper-cardioid pattern (to reject guitar sound and other unwanted noise from the side) and handles close miking well with minimal proximity effect (An Audix OM7 does the job well for me.)

When I do those three things, there isn't enough warble (when the harmonizer is on) in my total sum guitar sound to become an issue."

"One additional variable that is seldom mentioned is whether or not you have pitch correction engaged on the Harmony G XT or the VoiceLive 2. With the latter pedal especially, I've reduced the level of pitch correction significantly from the VL-2's default value. (Of course a lot of folks switch pc off entirely; I personally appreciate a little of it.) If you've got any amount of instrument bleeding into the mic, then the harmonized guitar "warble" is going to be exascerbated by any pitch correction the pedal is trying to do. The result is not pretty, and is most noticeable, as you said Jack, on instrumental breaks."
_________________
Pa4X, KronosX, BIAB, Cakewalk

[Chuck]

All of these issues I have personally experienced. I use the "Chord" method to play the harmonizer which is activated by a foot switch. I use a Neumann KBS 105 condenser mic also. I find that most of the "warbling" comes from various presets so I stick mostly with Two High. 1 up and 1 down works sometimes but in the end, TC Helicon and Korg need to do more research and testing prior to marketing.
By the way on the "old guy" thing, I'm 77.
_________________
PA4X & PA900
Bose L1 Model II w/ToneMatch
Neumann KBS 105 Mic
Old fingers

[robthemuso]

Finding this thread very interesting. I have a PAAS installed and chanel the VP out of output 3 and 4 into a pair of QTX 10a cabs. I find this really improves the overall sound and gives me more control over the vocals. By the way I am 72 and still giging 3 nights a week. Age is just a number music keeps you young. 😊🎼🎹👍
Regards young and old Rob.
_________________
PA1xpro/Korg O1w fd/pa4x76 Roland rd800 pk5 bass pedals and numerous useless amps mixers and othe bits of junk from the past

[keith-helen]

Hi All

I am 71 and useless

Best wishes

Keith Lawton
_________________
keith lawton
76 PA4X ,yamaha Qy100, Band in a box, FL studio and a right handed banjo I am left handed!!
previous Yamahas, Technics KN800 KN 1000 Roland G800 and G1000, Korg M1,i3, i30HD PA 80 PA 800,
and PaAs have now got left handed banjo