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Playing External Keyboards in Sequence Mode

 
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DanLong124



Joined: 24 Aug 2018
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:47 am    Post subject: Playing External Keyboards in Sequence Mode Reply with quote

I have a song that uses a sequence, which I was able to import and assign the sounds to. On my Roland I also sent midi out to my 2 Nords to be able to play a layer of the 2 keyboards from the Roland keyboard.

I'm trying to do the same thing on the Kronos and can't get it to work. The midi is talking because the patch changes I'm sending are working. I have the Nords on ch 14 and 16- they will play parts in a combi with this setup but not from the sequencer mode.

Any ideas on if this can be done and how? I'm not getting any midi messages to either Nord when I try to play them from the Kronos keyboard.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe you are trying to use your Nords as sound Modules

Ironically, I am trying to do the same with my FA-07; use the SEQ to midi
FA sounds and record them , via midi, on the SEQ, using the K's midi channels/tracks.

I was thinking we need a comprehensive topic, a sticky to capture all the important details. Maybe your post can also serve that purpose.

Here is something to read from the past:

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=85263&highlight=master+controller

Here is a fair video on the topic , using Rolands Integra.
But this video is not complete.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64JNQJbMOgk


Start off in SEQ mode and I believe you will need to save this set up as a SONG.

Anyway, if you have midi nailed down, and it sounds like you do. You need to go to the SEQ's Track parameter page, and assign your Nords sounds to your choice
of midi channels/track.

There is a pick list of midi sound sources( BTH is the default).

Choose EX2 for your midi channels to the Nords. I suppose you know your MSB/LSB for your Nords. Which can be entered
in Track Parameter/Bank Select and saved.

Maybe the first step is to get Global Midi in your K updated. It seems that in order to use the K as a master controller, we need to dedicate 1 midi channel
of the K for all the midi communication.

It appears the best idea is to assign Midi Channel 16 in Global for that. This change will need to be saved/written on your K.

In Global/Mid there is a Midi filter section. Looks like some boxes need to be ticked. If so, this change need to be saved.

If you are about ready, do a test SEQ recording. For some reason, the Volume
meters do not move or bump around when using EX2 or other midi sources of sound.

Some of the above details might be enough for your task. But I would like to go further, especially with the midi part as many new K owners are not up to speed on midi.

Plus I I am not finding a solid and thorough post topic that addresses the K as master controller, plus recording other midi devices on the SEQ.

Good luck and let us know how it works.

Other folks that are more expert will eventually post on your topic. Thanks for hitting it.
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Mike Conway
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3Eu3h4kwXk



And this, from the 7:30 mark on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3Eu3h4kwXk

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DanLong124



Joined: 24 Aug 2018
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies!!

I'm not having any issue playing sounds from my Nords from the Kronos while in Combi mode. That was easy enough to figure out. It's when it's in sequence mode that the sounds won't play. The program changes send when I pull up the song, but the parts I want to play from the Kronos keyboard don't trigger. I have 1 Nord set on ch 14 and the other on 16, and have the song set to send on those channels, but I get nothing going to the Nords.

I did notice that if I'm in the song mode there is a section near the top that lets you select a midi channel, if i pick that i can play 1 of the 2 nords but the whole keyboard plays, not the part of the board I need.

Something else I noticed today- the sequence/song file has to be loaded manually after you boot it up? Is there a way to have songs autoload? The song was blank when I powered up today, I panicked of course, went to disk mode and there it was, hit load on it and it loaded up ok. But there's gotta be a way to auto load the songs- what if you had 50 to load up?
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DanLong124



Joined: 24 Aug 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found the answer to the auto load of songs- can't be done... at least I know!
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GregC
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DanLong124 wrote:
I found the answer to the auto load of songs- can't be done... at least I know!


Yes, the fact that there is no auto load ( at boot up) of Song files surprises most.

For the other issue, I am not sure. I am still in 'trial and error:

-I don't know if a ' midi loop ' [ 2 sets of in/out cables ] is required or not.

- if your K is set to midi track 16 in global , did you try disabling 16 in your Nords ? This is in context of recording Nord sounds using the SEQ.

- try 'disabling ' Program Change " in Midi filter/Global.
This means the Global prg chg filter applies to incoming and outgoing midi.

Sorry that I am not certain if any of the above 'trial and error will
work. It seems that different boards handle midi slightly differently.

I don't recall mentioning this- I think its required to route your Nord audio to the Kronos audio ins. The K has 1 set [L/R] audio inputs
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DanLong124



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm running the Nord outs to the Kronos ins just to make it easier to set up while I'm programming, no mixer needed that way. Live everyone goes into the line mixer including routing all the samples from the Kronos to aux 1/2 which then get sent to their own DI for FOH and their own isolated channel on my mixer.

It's not a dealbreaker if I can't get it to transmit from the keyboard in song mode, I can play the parts on the Nords. I modified the organ sound on the Electro to layer in a polysynth sound with it and it's close to the original layer I had with the Electro and Nord Lead A1 together.
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Mike Conway
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
-I don't know if a ' midi loop ' [ 2 sets of in/out cables ] is required or not.


It is not. Preferably, just use one set, from Kronos OUT to the other boards.

That video addressed a particular question that someone had about Combi and KARMA control, hence the two way set up.
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pete.m
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan, you haven't said whether or not you tried Greg's suggestion about the 'Ext2' thing in sequencer mode. That's the area you need to go to. In seq mode, look for the bottom row of tabs on the screen and choose the third one along - 'Track Parameter'. Near the top of that page, you see a row of boxes marked 'bth'. That is where you can specify what sounds will be played by that midi channel - int, bth, ext, or ext2.

You may well be able just to use 'ext', rather than 'ext2' for your Nord, and thereby not have to bother setting MSB and LSB values (bank and program values corresponding to the programs on the Nord). It seems to depend on the type of synth you use as an external sound module. I can set up my Waldorf Blofeld and Novation KS Rack just using 'ext', because the Blofeld and KS Rack will store their own settings. But I had to use 'ext2' and do the MSB and LSB thing with an E-Mu module I used to use.

As for your question about loading multiple songs, that is easy enough. You don't have to load each song individually every time. In disk mode, go to the utility page and click on the top right button. One of your options there is 'create directory'. Click on it, and it will create a folder that you can then name. Load all your individual songs into sequencer mode - you can choose the location for each song as you load - and then save them all, as a group of songs, to that folder, using the save sng function on the save page of disk mode.
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DanLong124



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete, I am using the EXT2 option for both boards. Like I mentioned in my original post, the program changes are sent without issue, but playing the sounds from the Kronos keyboard while in song mode isn't working. Doing the same in combi mode works fine.
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19naia
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DanLong124 wrote:
Pete, I am using the EXT2 option for both boards. Like I mentioned in my original post, the program changes are sent without issue, but playing the sounds from the Kronos keyboard while in song mode isn't working. Doing the same in combi mode works fine.


If you are using “mute” in combi mode, to mute the timbres that are sending midi to External devices, there can be issues causeing differences in “mute” effect between Combi and Sequencer.
Using Mute to silence the kronos internal audio per timbre, works to silence only audio in Combi mode.
But in Sequencer mode, it mutes the midi signal also.
I know you say program changes are being sent just fine but the midi muting could be just for midi notes and not midi control data. The system tends to separate midi note data and midi control data. Note data would be behind sounds playing and Control data would be behind program changes.

Global mode has “Mute Mode” setting on the basic setup page for global settngs. Mute mode is part of the line-up under the “System Preferences”
section of Global basic setup page.

Mute mode has “Live” or “Studio” for settings.
They determine if just audio is muted or midi signal is muted as well. But this applies one way in Combi and then applies another way in Sequencer.
So when using mute in the same setup copied from Combi, expect your type of situation when you go from Combi to Sequencer.

Go to Global mode and change the “mute mode” setting, and then try your song response per each of the settings, to see if it solves your problem.

Page 757 of parameter guide gives the details of global “mute mode” settings -what differences entailed between Combi and Sequencer mode.
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19naia
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Parameter guide excerpt -page 757
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mute Mode [Studio, Live]

This parameter, new in KRONOS software version 2.1, controls the behavior of Timbre Mute in Combinations and Track Mute in Songs, including both the on-screen Mute buttons and the physical Control Surface buttons. The specific effects are different depending on whether you are in Combination mode or Sequencer mode.

Mute Mode in Combination mode
Studio: Mutes control audio output of Timbres. This is the way that previous versions of the KRONOS worked. It is particularly useful for sound design, since you can mute and un-mute Timbres without re-triggering notes.

Live: Mutes control MIDI input to Timbres. This is useful for live performance, since it allows you to create a set of Timbres for layering (such as piano, strings, and a pad), and then use the Mute buttons to enable and disable the layers as desired, without using polyphony for the muted layers.
Note: if the Timbre uses an EXi with fixed resources, those resources will continue to use processing power. If the Timbre is a CX-3, and the Noise Level parameter is non- zero, the noise will continue to sound. For more information, see “Noise Level” on page 228.


Mute Mode in Sequencer mode

Studio: Mutes control only sequencer MIDI input to Tracks; keyboard routing to Tracks is unaffected. This is the way that previous versions of the KRONOS worked. It's convenient while working on Songs - for instance, if you want to try out a different part for a previously recorded track.

Live: Mutes control both keyboard and sequencer MIDI input to Tracks. This is useful for layering in live performance, as described under “Mute Mode in Combination mode,” above.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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DanLong124



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I 'll look into that. My keys are still set up at our rehearsal spot so I can't look at it today. Appreciate the info!
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19naia
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DanLong124 wrote:
Thanks, I 'll look into that. My keys are still set up at our rehearsal spot so I can't look at it today. Appreciate the info!


The mute mode setting may not be the primary issue. The use of mute, at all, in the sequencer track may be the issue.
If you used mute in Combi, for EXT timbres, it would work fine.
But when that copies to sequencer, it applies differently.

Sequencer tracks should be ok set to “Play” or “Rec”, depending on wether you aim to record or just playback.
As for External deviced tracks, EXT setting and altered midi channel should be enough to keep internal programs from playing, with no need to use mute.

If you were not using mute on EXT tracks, then i am just as lost about it as you are. I just commented with what i would have explored if i were in your situation.
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