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Favorite Lead Guitar programs?

 
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Sam CA
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:50 pm    Post subject: Favorite Lead Guitar programs? Reply with quote

This is a 2 part question:

1) What are some of your favorite Electric Guitar programs for solo works? I'm not thinking about a particular style, so all suggestions are welcome.

2) What are some of your Kronos specific tips for producing more realistic Electric Guitar solos?

Even better if you have an audio or video track showcasing such sounds?
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GregC
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Favorite Lead Guitar programs? Reply with quote

Sam CA wrote:
This is a 2 part question:

1) What are some of your favorite Electric Guitar programs for solo works? I'm not thinking about a particular style, so all suggestions are welcome.

2) What are some of your Kronos specific tips for producing more realistic Electric Guitar solos?

Even better if you have an audio or video track showcasing such sounds?


E Guitars are as important as piano in my original songs. About half of my 38 songs feature E guitars. A few examples:

Sahara. Distorted guitars for lead parts and slash chords.
Distorted Feedback Guitar VJS. Used on 3 channels for more FX.
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994/sahara

Lost and Found. Strums and chords
Calm Guitar
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994/lost-and-found

Sweetest Things. Lead part.
Rotary ( leslie) Guitar
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994/sweetest-things

Broken Dreams. Go to :15. Picking and some chords.
New Age Hybrid Guitar
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994/broken-dreams

For tips, I apply additional FX (and EQ). What ever changes I make have to
fit into the final mix of other instruments in the song.
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IAA
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greg,

Really liked Sahara- some great sounds and loved the mellotron!

Ian
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Sam CA
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Favorite Lead Guitar programs? Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
....
E Guitars are as important as piano in my original songs. About half of my 38 songs feature E guitars. A few examples...


Thanks Greg,

'Sahara' is a good example for what I had in mind about E guitar. Before anything, do you play the lead parts in real time?
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GregC
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IAA wrote:
Greg,

Really liked Sahara- some great sounds and loved the mellotron!

Ian


Hi Ian, you have a good ear, Sahara is my strongest song, most listeners.

Nuclear Moon is close behind and has nasty distorted E guitar slash chords;
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994/nuclear-moon2wav
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GregC
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:22 am    Post subject: Re: Favorite Lead Guitar programs? Reply with quote

Sam CA wrote:
GregC wrote:
....
E Guitars are as important as piano in my original songs. About half of my 38 songs feature E guitars. A few examples...


Thanks Greg,

'Sahara' is a good example for what I had in mind about E guitar. Before anything, do you play the lead parts in real time?


Happy to discuss this.

Some clarification - " Before anything" ? This might be related to song writing structure and process.

There are several guitar parts in the song, that evolved out of the song draft.
Sahara has a 1 minute intro, a verse, a solo, back to verse, a bridge which has a brief lead solo plus crescendo, another bridge/solo, followed by a 1 minute ending.

In real time ? I usually have the song structure draft(usually a verse or 2 plus chorus/bride) in place with drums and bass. From there, I record each instrument, which involves playing/recording many takes- 10 to 15 takes for 1 part is not unusual.
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Sam CA
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:50 am    Post subject: Re: Favorite Lead Guitar programs? Reply with quote

Ok, so let me be a more specific.

Generally Guitars (Lead E-Guitars in particular) are my weak-EST points. I'm never happy with my Guitar tracks. Of course using a thick instrumentation does help to mask bad techniques but I'd like to just get better at it.

As far as the first part of my question....You know how sometimes you call a patch and it sounds like crap ...until you hear someone else play it in a certain way and that changes your mind? There are some Guitar sounds in there that I've never used, so it'd be nice to check out some good Guitar tracks produced on Kronos. Basically looking for some sound inspiring ideas.

For the 2nd part of my question, I wanted to know if skilled kronos based guitar players do anything else -besides the obvious- to get more convincing results for the leads. For Guitars, I haven't really looked under the hood to see if certain parameters make this category of sounds more suitable for a certain style.

I should've provided this info earlier.
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Gunnar
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing that springs to mind is very active use of the pitch joystick. This is something I do quite heavily on lead patches. I don't specifically play E-Guitar patches, but the technique is definitely inspired by guitar playing, and applies to both electric and acoustic guitar patches also.

JS-X is set to -24 semitones and JS+X is set to +2 semitones. In addition, I'll have for instance feedback on JS+Y and Wha on JS-Y. By sliding up into tones using JS-X and doing vibrato on the JS+X you end up with something that is heavily inspired by how a lead guitarist would play. Namely to slide the finger up the frets or bend up into a tone, then vibrato further by bending that tone, and as the strings get bent that gives a vibrato that only goes up in pitch. Hence emulated by the -24 slide (which you don't have to use the entire range, of course) and the upwards vibrato.

This technique is distinctly different from, say, how a violin vibrato is played, where you vibrate by moving only downwards in pitch or around the note, say +/-1 semi tone (which is much easier achieved using the Ribbon).

The benefit to doing vibrato with the JS compared to an LFO on, say, JS+Y (which tends to be the default setting on most stock patches) is that you can much more naturally fit the rhythm of the song and it becomes less machine like because it isn't so "steady". Plus, the JS+Y LFO vibrato is +/-X amount of pitch, while the guitarist would typically only vibrate upwards.

I've at least had people say "That sounds just like you're playing a guitar" when I show them the Kronos and my lead patches. But that is very much down to making it sound organic by using the realtime controls, Wha, feedback and JS vibrato. In general, I want my synth to sound distinctly different from a guitar, and I think I can quite easily tell that it is a synth I'm playing and not a guitar, but that is another matter Smile

And I should say, I've never used any keybed that has a better controller for doing vibrato than the Kronos Joystick. It is super light, so flicking it upwards is no effort at all, and because you have two directions worth of modulation (JS +/-Y) in addition to pitch on the same controller, it makes for a much more flexible controller compared to discrete pitch and mod wheel, where you kinda have to move your hand.
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NETWORK1
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Favorite Lead Guitar programs? Reply with quote

Sam CA wrote:

Ok, so let me be a more specific.
I haven't really looked under the hood to see if
certain parameters make this category of sounds more suitable for a certain style.


I think Lead Guitarists would'nt be seen dead, playing live
without there Musical-Makeup on.

There Musical-Makeup Box would include essentials like:
DRIVE | DISTORTION | CHORUS | DELAY | AUTOPAN | HEAVY-COMPPRESSION |

Without all that on, they'd sound too RAW ,especially first think in the morning.
The BEFORE & AFTER FX ,Speak for themselves.

EXAMPLE before & after fx
http://network1.x10.mx/bag1.mp3
----------------------------
COMPLETED-Track
https://vimeo.com/290299338






----------------------------
1.VIDEO POP : https://vimeo.com/album/5005360
2.VIDEO POP : https://vimeo.com/album/4798784



Last edited by NETWORK1 on Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GregC
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Favorite Lead Guitar programs? Reply with quote

Sam CA wrote:
Ok, so let me be a more specific.

Generally Guitars (Lead E-Guitars in particular) are my weak-EST points. I'm never happy with my Guitar tracks. Of course using a thick instrumentation does help to mask bad techniques but I'd like to just get better at it.

As far as the first part of my question....You know how sometimes you call a patch and it sounds like crap ...until you hear someone else play it in a certain way and that changes your mind? There are some Guitar sounds in there that I've never used, so it'd be nice to check out some good Guitar tracks produced on Kronos. Basically looking for some sound inspiring ideas.

For the 2nd part of my question, I wanted to know if skilled kronos based guitar players do anything else -besides the obvious- to get more convincing results for the leads. For Guitars, I haven't really looked under the hood to see if certain parameters make this category of sounds more suitable for a certain style.

I should've provided this info earlier.


Sam, your piano skill is superb

Guitar is equally expressive . My approach is retro. I played rhythm guitar
In bands in the 70s.

Guitar is mostly attitude. I like to define context, and I think chords , strums , progressions is a good foundation. Taking my guitar work on Sahara is an
Example. It's aggressive . My drums and bass are inviting guitar to slam in
the Pocket and ring out distorted chords.

My advice on guitar is similar. It starts with attitude. The Kronos e guitar program can inspire an attitude

In my case, I have a rough idea, sonically , of what's in my head.
My second step is to hunt the programs for the best fit.
As I audition the program with my
rhythm section, I decide on what embellishments to make. It could be delay, joystick, whatever adds to expression.

Pressing pause to see if this is useful
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Sam CA
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Favorite Lead Guitar programs? Reply with quote

NETWORK1 wrote:


There Musical-Makeup Box would include essentials like:
DRIVE | DISTORTION | CHORUS | DELAY | AUTOPAN | HEAVY-COMPPRESSION |

...


Thank you Network1,

Yes, this will definitely fall into the 'Obvious' category, but your make up picture did motivate me to buy me some make up kit. Very useful for setting up the mood! Idea
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Sam CA
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Gunnar

Yes! I definitely need to think about these things when I'm playing the lead part. Applying multiple controllers is the key here. I'll experiment with these ideas some more for sure. Thanks!
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Sam CA
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Favorite Lead Guitar programs? Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
...

My advice on guitar is similar. It starts with attitude...


That's exactly why my guitar parts sound like Piano for the most part. I play them with the wrong attitude! I do ok with Synth leads, because you can pretty much play them anyway, and it won't sound out of place. With Guitars I gotta find a balance between attitude and embellishments. I'll probably get that kid Nepro e-guitar library to have more sounds.
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hans1966
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Sam CA, according to my criteria and supporting some details that have been very well exposed by Greeg, Gunnar and Network1. I would say something else: Think and feel like a guitarist !. Although the normal thing is to think like pianist, because you have the technique of piano and very good by the way. but you must forget the keys and think about the steel strings of an electric guitar and its respective plectrum, connected to a pedalboard of effects (wah wah, delay, flanger, distortion). Everything is included in your Kronos. In short: 1. Use joystick. 2. use the appropriate effects for guitar and last but not least 3. think and feel like guitarist, so that you can give the real intention to your composition. I hope this helps. Greetings. Hans
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Sam CA
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hans1966 wrote:
Hi Sam CA, according to my criteria and supporting some details that have been very well exposed by Greeg, Gunnar and Network1. I would say something else: Think and feel like a guitarist !. Although the normal thing is to think like pianist, because you have the technique of piano and very good by the way. but you must forget the keys and think about the steel strings of an electric guitar and its respective plectrum, connected to a pedalboard of effects (wah wah, delay, flanger, distortion). Everything is included in your Kronos. In short: 1. Use joystick. 2. use the appropriate effects for guitar and last but not least 3. think and feel like guitarist, so that you can give the real intention to your composition. I hope this helps. Greetings. Hans


Hi Hans, ...yes I understand the concept. I'm primarily a composer. In a sense, this is no different than writing or playing a violin, Oboe or trumpet. Before doing anything crazy or using extended techniques, you first need to understand how the real instrument works and then take it from there. I think we can all agree that Guitar is no exception. That's not the issue here.

Most decent keyboard based guitarists develop certain techniques. Some are general and applicable to most keyboards but some are instrument specific meaning, if you change the keyboard you would also have to adapt and change based on the new features . That's what I meant by 'Kronos-specific' guitar tips.

Nonetheless all tips have been extremely useful. My Piano accent is too thick and gets in the way sometimes, so I'm soooooooooo ready to pick up new techniques from you guys.
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