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The Kronos EP engine needs an update!

 
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jimknopf
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:40 am    Post subject: The Kronos EP engine needs an update! Reply with quote

I just saw this:

https://youtu.be/m2MPDFnOBQM

So far, I always prefered the Kronos Rhodes sounds over those in Nord keyboards, due to detail and dynamic range in the Kronos EP engine. With the actual update of the the Nord Rhodes library, this impression sounds reversed now to me, and I favor the Nord Rhodes from the update.

It's not just that their Dyno-Rhodes is miles ahead of anything the Kronos delivers. What makes me even more envious as Kronos owner, mainly using the classical Rhodes sounds, is the punch and vibe of the classical amped Rhodes with these new Nord EP sounds.

The Kronos Rhodes in comparison always was missing a convincing MkI sound with enough bite in the upper range, and to make it worse, the Kronos amp section simply proves unable to provide the kick and overdrive of classical Fender amps for their EP engine.

I'm sorry to say it, but for my ears and use, the Kronos EP engine is clearly in second or third place meanwhile, after the Nord update and even concerning some actual Yamaha EP sounds as well. It definitely needs an update, both concerning the engine itself, finally providing both a convincing MK1 sound model with enough bite in the upper range, and some better amp modeling with convincing slight overdrive to make it shine.

Software libraries like Scarbee's 88s (whith quite a convincing Korg mini version in Module for iOS), or Spectrasonics Keyscape, have already been MUCH better than the the actual Kronos EPs since quite a while. And while we are at it: the Kronos Wurly in the EP engine and the Kronos D6 sounds (the latter thankyfully replacable by Busch's truly excellent D6 libraries) urgently need updates as well!

So either Korg finally delivers some kind of Kronos successor providing that, or they should urgently update their EP engine after 6 years of use: it's still nice and useable, but definitely no longer up to present standards!
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GregC
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am all for competition. The folks at Nord are top notch. its great they listen so closely to their many owners, and here they continue to push on improvement.

really, our K's are due for a major OS update, EP engine and otherwise. If Korg finally pulls the trigger, that would help K sales into 2019.

Feb 2017 was the last OS upgrade.

We can love the K as it is, and still demand more from Korg.
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benny ray
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both of the above posts are spot on about the Kronos . I hope Korg listens to the customers as well. I am sure an EP. update would not be very difficult.
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ronnfigg
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know much about coding and OSs. Not sure there that there is an endless supply of resources for updates. Maybe some computer guru could help enlighten me.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ronnfigg wrote:
Don't know much about coding and OSs. Not sure there that there is an endless supply of resources for updates. Maybe some computer guru could help enlighten me.


That could 1of several reasons why we haven't seen any updates for almost 2 years or any whispers of a sound engine.

If you play 4 or 5 of the resource hungry sound engines together, you can max out polyphony quickly.

Possibly most K owners play CX-3 and HD-1 and a drum track together ( for example] and never have any problem.

Just the same we all need a stable keyboard. The Atom processor likely is at the root of constraints along with the OS
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CharlesFerraro
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:05 am    Post subject: Re: The Kronos EP engine needs an update! Reply with quote

jimknopf wrote:
The Kronos Rhodes in comparison always was missing a convincing MkI sound with enough bite in the upper range, and to make it worse, the Kronos amp section simply proves unable to provide the kick and overdrive of classical Fender amps for their EP engine.


I agree that the amp modeling on it's own is sub par. Thing is you have a heck of a lot of options with some clever programming. Instead of using an amp try using the Tube PreAmp Modeling (IFX 36, and also in stereo with 37). Setup emphasis and de emphasis Mastering EQ's around the unit. This is to control what frequencies are being pushed into the amp and dramatically increases the amount of distortion flavors you can get from a unit. Put a multiband compressor at the end of the chain. You will undoubtedly find a lot of sweet spots.

You can of course stick with guitar preamps with the aforementioned technique instead of having 36 or 37 sandwiched between the EQ's. But you lose the ability to generate sweet even order harmonics without a bias control. The Fender models are the (x2)Tweeds and (x1)Black options. You might also like the Vox AC15 and it's brother the AC30. I'd go with the Guitar amp plus EQ since it's more customizable even if it's frequency response curves aren't as detailed as the cabinet filters.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:20 am    Post subject: Re: The Kronos EP engine needs an update! Reply with quote

CharlesFerraro wrote:
jimknopf wrote:
The Kronos Rhodes in comparison always was missing a convincing MkI sound with enough bite in the upper range, and to make it worse, the Kronos amp section simply proves unable to provide the kick and overdrive of classical Fender amps for their EP engine.


I agree that the amp modeling on it's own is sub par. Thing is you have a heck of a lot of options with some clever programming. Instead of using an amp try using the Tube PreAmp Modeling (IFX 36, and also in stereo with 37). Setup emphasis and de emphasis Mastering EQ's around the unit. This is to control what frequencies are being pushed into the amp and dramatically increases the amount of distortion flavors you can get from a unit. Put a multiband compressor at the end of the chain. You will undoubtedly find a lot of sweet spots.

You can of course stick with guitar preamps with the aforementioned technique instead of having 36 or 37 sandwiched between the EQ's. But you lose the ability to generate sweet even order harmonics without a bias control. The Fender models are the (x2)Tweeds and (x1)Black options. You might also like the Vox AC15 and it's brother the AC30. I'd go with the Guitar amp plus EQ since it's more customizable even if it's frequency response curves aren't as detailed as the cabinet filters.


How funny, we are discussing Vox tube amps in the same breath as Kronos EP's and FX for them.

I was looking at Rickebacher and the AC15CH head was highly recommended. It might be wild to route the Kronos Ep's thru it.
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CharlesFerraro
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:11 am    Post subject: Re: The Kronos EP engine needs an update! Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
CharlesFerraro wrote:
jimknopf wrote:
The Kronos Rhodes in comparison always was missing a convincing MkI sound with enough bite in the upper range, and to make it worse, the Kronos amp section simply proves unable to provide the kick and overdrive of classical Fender amps for their EP engine.


I agree that the amp modeling on it's own is sub par. Thing is you have a heck of a lot of options with some clever programming. Instead of using an amp try using the Tube PreAmp Modeling (IFX 36, and also in stereo with 37). Setup emphasis and de emphasis Mastering EQ's around the unit. This is to control what frequencies are being pushed into the amp and dramatically increases the amount of distortion flavors you can get from a unit. Put a multiband compressor at the end of the chain. You will undoubtedly find a lot of sweet spots.

You can of course stick with guitar preamps with the aforementioned technique instead of having 36 or 37 sandwiched between the EQ's. But you lose the ability to generate sweet even order harmonics without a bias control. The Fender models are the (x2)Tweeds and (x1)Black options. You might also like the Vox AC15 and it's brother the AC30. I'd go with the Guitar amp plus EQ since it's more customizable even if it's frequency response curves aren't as detailed as the cabinet filters.


How funny, we are discussing Vox tube amps in the same breath as Kronos EP's and FX for them.

I was looking at Rickebacher and the AC15CH head was highly recommended. It might be wild to route the Kronos Ep's thru it.


Yup, recommended because I find the AC's transfer functions (distortion) to be similar to the Fender's. Still think the Tube PreAmp is a more versatile distortion unit though. It's a degree above most of the other distortion algorithms found elsewhere in the K. It can be super subtle or just as gnarley as the Hyper OD. It's the only distortion that generates even ordered harmonics besides some of the waveshape tables. And my personal favorite use for it is using it as a soft clipper instead of using a limiter at the end of the signal chain. Though that last point isn't germane to the topic of distorting an EP.
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jimknopf
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: The Kronos EP engine needs an update! Reply with quote

CharlesFerraro wrote:
jimknopf wrote:
The Kronos Rhodes in comparison always was missing a convincing MkI sound with enough bite in the upper range, and to make it worse, the Kronos amp section simply proves unable to provide the kick and overdrive of classical Fender amps for their EP engine.


I agree that the amp modeling on it's own is sub par. Thing is you have a heck of a lot of options with some clever programming. Instead of using an amp try using the Tube PreAmp Modeling (IFX 36, and also in stereo with 37). Setup emphasis and de emphasis Mastering EQ's around the unit. This is to control what frequencies are being pushed into the amp and dramatically increases the amount of distortion flavors you can get from a unit. Put a multiband compressor at the end of the chain. You will undoubtedly find a lot of sweet spots.

You can of course stick with guitar preamps with the aforementioned technique instead of having 36 or 37 sandwiched between the EQ's. But you lose the ability to generate sweet even order harmonics without a bias control. The Fender models are the (x2)Tweeds and (x1)Black options. You might also like the Vox AC15 and it's brother the AC30. I'd go with the Guitar amp plus EQ since it's more customizable even if it's frequency response curves aren't as detailed as the cabinet filters.


Yes, there are options, and I normally use the Kronos bass amp modelling and the preamp options like you do. Still, they are not more than workarounds to my ears. And I would much prefer a simple setup within the EPiano engine (like it is now, but so far with a really bad digital harsh form of amp model and overdrive), just being halfway seriously reminiscent of that clean, up to slightly overdriven, Fender Reverb series amp modeling. The present amp modelling in the Kronos sounds really outdated.

Great EP sounds are essential to me. I will not forever stay with what the Kronos offers since 7 years, hoping for a real cutting through Rhodes MkI sound and a better, less muddy Wurly engine sound since day 1, in vain so far. The EP engine offers no Rhodes MKI stage sound with enough bite and bark in the upper range at all up to now, and I want and need that all the time.

I still like and liked a lot about the EP engine (especially velocity dynamics and mid and lower end tone of some Rhodes sounds, great moulation effects etc.). But if I see no progress at all to get that engine updated ever (like they did rather successfully with the quite halfbaked first CX3 organ engine sound), and Korg get's careless and sleepy with their Kronos (like they just showed up with their complete Prologue tuning desaster, for many months without fix and communication), while everyone else moves on, I will have to look for alternatives and will move on as well. Would be a pity, because the Kronos has been my main keyboard all these years.

So I'm really curious, what the present Korg management is up to, and if they have anything substantial concerning Kronos development or Kronos follow up to offer in the next months. The present company profile has already lost a lot of my my former customer trust lately.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:29 am    Post subject: Re: The Kronos EP engine needs an update! Reply with quote

jimknopf wrote:
[q
I still like and liked a lot about the EP engine (especially velocity dynamics and mid and lower end tone of some Rhodes sounds, great moulation effects etc.). But if I see no progress at all to get that engine updated ever (like they did rather successfully with the quite halfbaked first CX3 organ engine sound), and Korg get's careless and sleepy with their Kronos (like they just showed up with their complete Prologue tuning desaster, for many months without fix and communication), while everyone else moves on, I will have to look for alternatives and will move on as well. Would be a pity, because the Kronos has been my main keyboard all these years.

So I'm really curious, what the present Korg management is up to, and if they have anything substantial concerning Kronos development or Kronos follow up to offer in the next months. The present company profile has already lost a lot of my my former customer trust lately.


I agree with this sentiment. In addition to an EP update and a long wish list for Kronos, the FX types are somewhat basic. There are other FX that are needed to enhance EP.

The FX situation is even more skimpy for E guitars. Simply not enough FX

I wish Korg would make an effort. I don't expect Korg to be ' all things for all people'. Thats not realistic. But take the time and invest in steady progress on a great keyboard.

January 2019 is a most important month for us Kronos owners, esp us long time die hard Kronos owners.
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benny ray
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:29 am    Post subject: Re: The Kronos EP engine needs an update! Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
jimknopf wrote:
[q
I still like and liked a lot about the EP engine (especially velocity dynamics and mid and lower end tone of some Rhodes sounds, great moulation effects etc.). But if I see no progress at all to get that engine updated ever (like they did rather successfully with the quite halfbaked first CX3 organ engine sound), and Korg get's careless and sleepy with their Kronos (like they just showed up with their complete Prologue tuning desaster, for many months without fix and communication), while everyone else moves on, I will have to look for alternatives and will move on as well. Would be a pity, because the Kronos has been my main keyboard all these years.

So I'm really curious, what the present Korg management is up to, and if they have anything substantial concerning Kronos development or Kronos follow up to offer in the next months. The present company profile has already lost a lot of my my former customer trust lately.


I agree with this sentiment. In addition to an EP update and a long wish list for Kronos, the FX types are somewhat basic. There are other FX that are needed to enhance EP.

The FX situation is even more skimpy for E guitars. Simply not enough FX

I wish Korg would make an effort. I don't expect Korg to be ' all things for all people'. Thats not realistic. But take the time and invest in steady progress on a great keyboard.

January 2019 is a most important month for us Kronos owners, esp us long time die hard Kronos owners.


+1
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apex
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This sounds great, but it's not crazy better than Kronos. Imo I believe these sounds and features can be achieved already with what we have in the box. 🤷🏾‍♂️
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