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Diminished SST performance still unresolved in 3.03
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chini
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Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 274
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: My custom patches worked fine in OS2! Reply with quote

danatkorg wrote:
Hi Chini,

chini wrote:


Hi Dan, yes! mine are all painstakingly programmed custom combies often using up all timbres, not necessarily layered sounds


My guess is that playing a single key on the keyboard is triggering a whole bunch of notes internally, one way or another (layers would be the usual way, including unison voices, but KARMA could also do this) - perhaps in conjunction with heavy effects or EXi Fixed Resource use.

chini wrote:
but definitely intricately zoned sometimes using up to 4 instances of KARMA and the drum track. The fact is my patches were all changing perfectly between each other re SST in OS2 ! hence my frustration at being stranded now in OS3.


If you have your sounds saved in version 2 format, you could always downgrade.

chini wrote:
I am just wondering if there is anything I can possibly do to reduce the pressure on the processor apart from change my combie set ups which is a definite no! no!...?


Refining sounds to minimize voice usage is something that Korg sound designers always do before release. It's quite possible that you would be able to do so as well.

For instance, you could try the following:

* Make sure that all unused Combi timbres are set to Programs which use only AL-1 or HD-1 Patches. Other EXi use some amount of fixed resources, which will diminish polyphony.

* Remove any unused effects.

* If layered polyphonic sounds are using Unison voices, consider using a chorus effect instead.

* Avoid using multiple CX-3 or EP-1 sounds, since these use significant amounts of fixed EXi resources.

When I tested some user sounds which were reported as having problems in version 3, I found that they had the same problems in version 2 - it was just a little more difficult to make it happen there. Optimizing sounds is always useful!


Hi Dan,

I know it's been 3 years since this thread but I'm back heavily programming a new set list this year for my new on stage repertoire!

Amazingly after its conception 6 years ago the Kronos is still the top dog performance synth/master keyboard and needless to say is still indeed the hub of my rig!

Not sure if you are still on the radar for the Kronos but shedding light back on your suggestion: "Make sure that all unused Combi timbres are set to Programs which use only AL-1 or HD-1 Patches. Other EXi use some amount of fixed resources, which will diminish polyphony" I was wondering if Korg will ever implement a little update that would enable any timbre slot to be set to "no program" !....?

From your comment here, which I have to admit I overlooked at the time, an I correct to say that this would imply that even with timbre slots turned off in a combie, if one leaves the programs as anything other than AL-1 or HD-1 the Kronos still uses up cpu even with the slots turned off!..?
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GregC
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Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Chini, good you re-started this topic. I still struggle with polyphony limits.

I am reviewing this from Dan:

"Make sure that all unused Combi timbres are set to Programs which use only AL-1 or HD-1 Patches. Other EXi use some amount of fixed resources, which will diminish polyphony"

I think Dan is encouraging us to change the ' default German Grand ' program assignments in a Combi { I use SEQ all the time ]. to a HD-1 program or AL-1 Program.

Definitely, HD-1 programs are easy on resources. Some AL-1 programs use heavy resources . There is a Rez AL-1 program that is hungry. So it depends on the AL-1 program, I think.

I have an example of this in my last original, "Desert Heat'. I had to limit my synth solo since I experienced severe clipping/note drop off when using an AL-1 program.

Sorry I can't help on Set List stuff.
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chini
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Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 274
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
Hey Chini, good you re-started this topic. I still struggle with polyphony limits.

I am reviewing this from Dan:

"Make sure that all unused Combi timbres are set to Programs which use only AL-1 or HD-1 Patches. Other EXi use some amount of fixed resources, which will diminish polyphony"

I think Dan is encouraging us to change the ' default German Grand ' program assignments in a Combi { I use SEQ all the time ]. to a HD-1 program or AL-1 Program.

Definitely, HD-1 programs are easy on resources. Some AL-1 programs use heavy resources . There is a Rez AL-1 program that is hungry. So it depends on the AL-1 program, I think.

I have an example of this in my last original, "Desert Heat'. I had to limit my synth solo since I experienced severe clipping/note drop off when using an AL-1 program.

Sorry I can't help on Set List stuff.


Hi Greg! How are you chap?!... been a long while eh!
...Yes! I changed any slot sitting idle to a default AL-1 program. Actually what Dan says here makes perfect sense as one can have the slot status to mute and the engine will still be holding the resources of that slot in the wings- something I do a to as I often switch Karma zone settings within a combie during performance. However what is odd iOS if one actually turns a slot status "off" one would have thought that this meant the slot is completely inactive and therefore not taking up any cpu no?....!

Upshot is I still haven't noticed any difference unfortunately! I just have to be extremely careful to arrange combos in a way where crucial passing between one set of sounds and another is not hindered in terms of tails etc. I'm still using the Roland A-50 to patch change my Kronos patches as if you remember it has that great feature of being able to release the actual pre-hit patch change one release of the notes sustained either by my hands on the keys or the stain pedal. Obviously my older hardware synths don't have SST but at least I can perform natural changes between sounds. I honestly don't understand how most keyboard players time their midi program changes by timing the actual hit of the switch at the point they need the sounds to change! I am always keeping my I out for this feature in other possible master keyboard designs but it appears us live performers with large hardware rigs are a rare breed these days!

By the way, Greg, I have been using Gigperformer for over a year now and it is by far the best hosting software for the live player. I had been using Ableton Live and dabbled with then a brief encounter with MainStage before I stumbled over GigPerformer which knocks both out the window for harnessing hardware and VST software instruments for the live player. Do check it out if you need something like this for live use!

https://gigperformer.com
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janrhansen



Joined: 10 Jan 2019
Posts: 7
Location: Odense, Denmark

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a new Kronos user, I am actually surpriced to read about unused slots in a Combi is taking up CPU resources.
For an IT educated user, that seems like a pretty big design flaw.

Its like saying, lets make sure I have cpu time enough if I decide to open up 16 apps at a time, even I am only planning of using 4, so I set 12 placeholder apps up each using 6% cpu time doing nothing .... i know very simplified scenario, but you get the point.

Its one of the key points Korg sells the Kronos on .. its ability to dynamically to distribute cpu load on where its needed.

For some vital processes in a computer it makes sense to have a static assigned workspace, but this approach to a new clean combi to assign all slots weaher they are used or not to Berlin Grand, wich I also noticed seems pretty stupid. Why not just initialize them as a Commbi starting out with "1" instance of Berlin Grand and let the rest be turned off ?

Sounds like a 3.05 update patch idea Smile
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rickster1
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Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 84
Location: Hilton Head Island, SC

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 1st gen K73 and I never upgraded to the "new" OS that came with the Kronos 2 ... I stayed with 2.1.2 because I was afraid of increased polyphony problems and I read that some programs were stored in different locations with 3.0.1. Reading this thread makes me happy that I stayed at 2.1.2 despite the advantages of updating, as has been expressed by others on this thread. I was using it on gigs & didn't want issues I couldn't resolve.

I believe 2.1.2 was the last OS before the first OS of the Kronos 2, which I think was 3.0.1.
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chini
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Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having read both your comments here I must stress that the thread I started here now three years ago (!) is coming from someone who often has more than half of his slots in use and that I only noticed SST not working with one particular patch change which I have since addressed to curtail the problem in version 3. It was not happening at all in version 2 but as Dan did say it was a combination of the fact that version 3 does make more work on the processing chip and the fact that my mother board is the slightly slower earlier version that brought the anomaly to light. I come across the problem RARELY even being a very heavy user of slots myself!

I don't regret moving to version 3 but I do agree that an update regarding the idle slot scenario potentially eating up cpu power is one Korg should really amend as it does indeed contradict the original design regarding spread of processing power! Further to this I would also ask Korg: if one assigns a slot to "EXT" if the internal name of the sound left sitting there from whatever patch number one is only assigning to access an external sound source is still hogging cpu power?...! In either case an update to clear this uncertainty would be most welcome!

As I mentioned somewhere along this thread I only ever moved up to version 3 for the Setlist improvements which I must say are excellent for on stage use.

At the time the particular combie change in question fell at an important part in my live repertoire and was highly annoying when the drums wouldn't kick in how they normally did in version 2. However after indeed going into editing the combie again I realised that I did have a couple of unused open effects that after closing them brought the drums back into play. Again I must stress that this particular patch I was changing is using all slots with 6 IFX and both main FX in tow to boot! The patch still has the same setup today and is working fine!
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