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Is anyone else having problems with Mac USB Audio lately?

 
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Xenophile
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Joined: 14 Nov 2017
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:02 pm    Post subject: Is anyone else having problems with Mac USB Audio lately? Reply with quote

I know it was broken for years, and Apple seemingly fixed it about a year ago. At least I was able to use Kronos for audio out of my MacBook Pro without any problems since the High Sierra update in late 2017.

But I recently let the Mac update again... I think they're calling it "Mojave" now.
Last night my Kronos crashed 3 times within one hour while using the USB audio interface with the Mac. Disconnected the USB cable to the Mac, and Kronos was solid for another 3 hours of playing/programming.

Has anyone else experienced instability with this lately?
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Poseidon
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Joined: 08 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's Kronos failure.
Intel has identified problems with NM10/ICH7 family chipsets ( present in Kronos)
The interface chip works inefficiently, and causes wait states for the CPU.
Korg should replace motherboard in 2015 models.

When Apple rewritten USB stack, the first thoughts by Matthias Carstens (RME) were -

According to our tests the result seems very positive for USB audio - it seems more stable, reliable and even quicker by making lower latency settings operational with less dropouts.
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SeedyLee
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Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 1091
Location: Perth, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iím not sure about any of that Poseidon.

For starters, the USB client interface on the Kronos doesnít connect to the Intel motherboard, and instead interfaces with the Kronos via a daughter board with its own USB buffer and ARM processor. Thatís not to say itís not possible for an external device to cause a bug in the Kronos, Iím just not sure about your reasoning there.

Iím finding the Kronos is working better under Mojave with USB audio than any previous version.
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Poseidon
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poseidon wrote:
Intel has identified problems with NM10/ICH7 family chipsets ( present in Kronos)
The interface chip works inefficiently, and causes wait states for the CPU.


This behaviour occurs regardless of the driver and operating system.
Laptops with Atom CPU and I/O controller (like Kronos) have disastrous USB interfaces.
Only ICH8, 9, and 10 exhibit an excellent USB performance. Anything older is not suited for the task ( especially in Pro Audio hardware)
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Xenophile
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess My Focusrite isnít ready for retirement yet.
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Poseidon
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Joined: 08 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poseidon wrote:

Laptops with Atom CPU and I/O controller (like Kronos) have disastrous USB interfaces.


I add they are so deficient that RME marked them as incompatible.
RME products support nothing less than ICH8 controller.
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SeedyLee
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Joined: 13 Sep 2006
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Location: Perth, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, I'm not convinced you know what you're talking about in this area.

You do realize that the Kronos motherboard interfaces with its internal sound card via USB, don't you? And that works pretty damn flawlessly with some of the lowest latency I've ever heard on a product with its architecture.

Again, the USB-B connector on the Kronos does not connect to the Internet motherboard. There is a separate USB controller.
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Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 61, , Monotron, , Roland JV-80 & JV-1080 Kawai L1, Lexicon MX200, Motu 828 mk3, Presonus FaderPort, Motu MicroLite, Behringer BCR2000, Yamaha QY70, VocalWorks+, Rode NT1-A, Tascam VLX5 Monitors Tascam CD Player, Shure SRH840 Headphones. Shure IEM, Shure SM58, JBL PRX12 monitor wedge.

Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000
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SeedyLee
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Location: Perth, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, I'm not convinced you know what you're talking about in this area.

You do realize that the Kronos motherboard interfaces with its internal sound card via USB, don't you? And that works pretty damn flawlessly with some of the lowest latency I've ever heard on a product with its architecture.

Again, the USB-B connector on the Kronos does not connect to the Internet motherboard. There is a separate USB controller.
_________________
Message me on BlackBerry Messenger: 2B3628BE
Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 61, , Monotron, , Roland JV-80 & JV-1080 Kawai L1, Lexicon MX200, Motu 828 mk3, Presonus FaderPort, Motu MicroLite, Behringer BCR2000, Yamaha QY70, VocalWorks+, Rode NT1-A, Tascam VLX5 Monitors Tascam CD Player, Shure SRH840 Headphones. Shure IEM, Shure SM58, JBL PRX12 monitor wedge.

Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000
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GregC
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Joined: 15 May 2002
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Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Is anyone else having problems with Mac USB Audio lately Reply with quote

Xenophile wrote:
I know it was broken for years, and Apple seemingly fixed it about a year ago. At least I was able to use Kronos for audio out of my MacBook Pro without any problems since the High Sierra update in late 2017.

But I recently let the Mac update again... I think they're calling it "Mojave" now.
Last night my Kronos crashed 3 times within one hour while using the USB audio interface with the Mac. Disconnected the USB cable to the Mac, and Kronos was solid for another 3 hours of playing/programming.

Has anyone else experienced instability with this lately?


3 Mac household here.

I admit to fighting the future - I resist all the auto OS prompts to go to Mojave.

Unless there is a tangible and persuasive reasons to update, I don't.

Plus I am happy with my Steinberg UR 44 AI. With that I avoid the kludginess
of whatever Mac OS recognizing my Kronos via USB.
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Poseidon
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Joined: 08 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SeedyLee wrote:
Again, I'm not convinced you know what you're talking about in this area.


I am not here to convince anyone. I simply state the facts regarding NM10/ICH7 family chipsets and USB performance.
it was well documented, known and acknowledged by Intel.

SeedyLee wrote:
You do realize that the Kronos motherboard interfaces with its internal sound card via USB ...


Korgs custom audio I/O is connected to Atom CPU via USB, and USB is managed by NM10 chipset. What we have here is a a working patchwork, and is so alien to others (devices) that forces many to unplug and plug USB cable on daily basis.
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