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netunof
Joined: 30 Jan 2019
Posts: 21
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 Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:16 pm Post subject: Realistic Sounds |
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Hi folks, i'm kinda dissatisfied with some of the stock tones of Kronos, specially orchestral, brass, woodwinds and guitars. Is it possible to make the sounds more realistic? Like tweaking here and there? Since i'm a more of DAW guy i'm thinking in trading my Kronos X 61 in an Integra-7 and some controllers, I7 sounds really impressed me but it lacks controls.
Of course is almost impossible to be 100% realistic but it is possible to be convincing, watched some kronos orchestral demos on youtube and the sound quality is kinda poor. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance
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AntonySharmman
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Joined: 16 Oct 2010
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Location: Hellas
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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You have to invest in third-party EXs libraries as in VST world.
One serious proposal for Orchestral Ensembles is WavesArt Cinematic Suite , also have a look at Korg Store EXs.
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marc1
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Joined: 04 May 2015
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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netunof wrote
| Quote: | | Is it possible to make the sounds more realistic? Like tweaking here and there? |
It's aways possible to tweak sounds (with a synthesizer, that is). But whether it's possible to make them sound more realistic is a whole other story. Many tried, many failed and it's a phenomena which is not just tied to Kronos, but hardware synths in general.
Most often than not you won't reach the realism of recent orchestral sample libraries like NI's orchestral stuff or Vienna's stuff, simply because Kronos doesn't offer the many many Gigs of sampled sounds only dedicated to brass, woodwind or what have you.
There are, however, extra brass and woodwind sounds (called EXs 3) which are on the internal SSD which are not part of the regular sound set and I would recommend you try them before commencing in any further direction.
And when talking about realism, what exactly are you looking for? Articulations? More dynamic expressiveness? Or is it the general tone of some of the sounds which doesn't satisfy your needs? |
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netunof
Joined: 30 Jan 2019
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Tone, timbre. Most keyboards have very low convincing tones, as i said the most convincing "out of the box" thing i've seen until now is the I7 module.
So soft synths has it better?
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marc1
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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Let me add this: it's always possible to tweak sounds to your liking and therefore to 'add' more realism up to a certain point, but it takes expertise. And programming synthesizer is certainly a rather time consuming effort without guarantee of success.
On the other hand, before you trade your Kronos I would recommend you acquaint yourself with all the EXs 3 sounds, for example, and play with them around for some time. You may find some of them very useful. But, if this doesn't do the trick for you, you can still opt for a third party library or the Integra or whatever. |
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exsequor699
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 132
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| KApro libraries for Kronos. |
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GregC
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: Realistic Sounds |
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| netunof wrote: | Hi folks, i'm kinda dissatisfied with some of the stock tones of Kronos, specially orchestral, brass, woodwinds and guitars. Is it possible to make the sounds more realistic? Like tweaking here and there? Since i'm a more of DAW guy i'm thinking in trading my Kronos X 61 in an Integra-7 and some controllers, I7 sounds really impressed me but it lacks controls.
Of course is almost impossible to be 100% realistic but it is possible to be convincing, watched some kronos orchestral demos on youtube and the sound quality is kinda poor. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance |
Not picking on you but that sounds like a major complaint. Did you spend the time to try out Kronos and evaluate the instruments ?
You will have to spend more money for each group if you expect your Kronos to sound like your VST's
I know something of Integra as I own the FA and spend a lot of time with the Axial D/L's. Hint: The Integra will not completely cover your instrument groups like VST's.
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GregC
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Gunnar
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Joined: 27 Jan 2016
Posts: 185
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:09 am Post subject: |
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One point about realism which is often overlooked is articulation and playing style.. Like, to play violin or guitar sounds, you need to use vibrato and slides like somebody playing those instruments. The Kronos has a superb pitch joystick in addition to a number of other controls that let you control the sound in real time to help with articulation. A good programmable synth combined with good control is how you get better realism. I think the Kronos excels at this
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Liviou2004
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Joined: 20 Feb 2017
Posts: 1150
Location: France
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Realistic Sounds |
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| netunof wrote: | Hi folks, i'm kinda dissatisfied with some of the stock tones of Kronos, specially orchestral, brass, woodwinds and guitars. Is it possible to make the sounds more realistic? Like tweaking here and there? Since i'm a more of DAW guy i'm thinking in trading my Kronos X 61 in an Integra-7 and some controllers, I7 sounds really impressed me but it lacks controls.
Of course is almost impossible to be 100% realistic but it is possible to be convincing, watched some kronos orchestral demos on youtube and the sound quality is kinda poor. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance |
Absolutely agree with Gunnar : even if you picked up the best sounds on the best synth or VST of the world, you won't get any realistic result if you don't reproduce all the subtilities of a real instrument player.
Of course we don't play saxophone as a guitar or an harp !
Generally speaking it's easier to reproduce an ensemble than a solo instrument. It's quite easy to get a realistic violin ensemble. But a solo violin, its another story.
So the first point : getting a good, a very good third party sound banks. There are very good (just go to Shop Korg and download demo banks, they are fully functional).
Second point : adapt your way of playing as closest as possible to a real player, using the different controlers. On that point, you can use an extra keyboard named Roli Seaboard.
One example : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy4Y5xPAC7A |
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GregC
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Joined: 15 May 2002
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Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Gunnar wrote: | | One point about realism which is often overlooked is articulation and playing style.. Like, to play violin or guitar sounds, you need to use vibrato and slides like somebody playing those instruments. The Kronos has a superb pitch joystick in addition to a number of other controls that let you control the sound in real time to help with articulation. A good programmable synth combined with good control is how you get better realism. I think the Kronos excels at this |
As we enjoy our K's year after year and continue to progress, our appetite for a larger palette for certain instruments might increase.
I think you play guitar so you have a strong approach when recording guitar parts.
I would agree that Kronos does a good job with various controllers as it pertains to guitar expressiveness.
And to quantify what I require, I need a varied library for guitars, possibly 100/150 different guitars. Kronos does not have such a full and diverse library. The FX are also limited.
My Roland FA has improved my e guitar library and has very good acoustic guitars. Plus the controller on the FA is more realistic for bends, etc.
what Liviou posted also seems to be the best solution for expressiveness and getting at articulation- the ROLI. This is on my shopping list.
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Flabis66
Joined: 13 Oct 2018
Posts: 46
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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I'm a beginner with the Kronos but i compare very often piano sounds on different digital pianos and write reviews. I've also tried different piano VST's on different keyboards connected as midi controllers. And what I've noticed is that the sound is really more realistic on a very good keyboard than a cheap one, it makes a huge difference.
The best result I got is with the Kawai CS8/CS11 with his Grand Feel II action, when i select a Kawai piano VST because the keybed action is very similar.
And it's not realistic at all on my M-Audio midi controller because the keys are not reacting the same way.
So, if you try to play a guitar sound on keys instead of strings, it's impossible to create a guitar effect and have a realistic sound.
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GregC
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Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Flabis66 wrote: |
So, if you try to play a guitar sound on keys instead of strings, it's impossible to create a guitar effect and have a realistic sound. |
Not exactly. I perform numerous guitar parts on my Kronos. Several basic guitar
parts are definitely within reach using Kronos.
Is it perfect ? No. But 95% realistic is close for the basic guitar parts I perform.
I played guitar some decades ago. That experience helps.
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timbukktwo
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Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Posts: 287
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Per one example (when the Kronos first came out), Marco Parisi did this video (below) playing three styles of music, with the last example as a guitar solo. In the YouTube video comments regarding the video, a question was asked as to whether the guitar solo was using a stock sample; it was not known for sure. You be the judge. Irregardless, Greg’s comment regarding experience is absolutely a key point! The point being that Marco Parisi is a talent that knows -HOW- to play.
(Sorry, I don’t know how to imbed the video, but):
KORG KRONOS Performance con Marco Parisi
(YouTube) |
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GregC
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Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| timbukktwo wrote: | Per one example (when the Kronos first came out), Marco Parisi did this video (below) playing three styles of music, with one example as a guitar solo. In the YouTube video comments regarding the video, a question was asked as to whether the guitar solo was using a stock sample; it was not known for sure. You be the judge. Irregardless, Greg’s comment regarding experience is absolutely a key point! The point being that Marco Parisi is a talent that knows -HOW- to play.
Sorry, I don’t know how to imbed the video, but:
KORG KRONOS Performance con Marco Parisi
(YouTube) |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGKiVHVCHVc
Thats a good example- Marco is highly skilled.
There are about 10 very usable distorted guitar programs on Kronos.
That might be enough for most Kronos owners. Plus with some
programming time the 10 can evolve creatively.
Speaking for myself, I have gone to the well often on the 10 and realize
there are + 100 distorted guitars I would like to have.
Which is 1 reason I like my FA- the e guitars go further, give a different
character.
This requirement might sound picky- I just happen to like guitar almost as much as I like piano.
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