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i-pad to Krome for comb, progran, and transpose changes

 
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jws55



Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 11
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:42 pm    Post subject: i-pad to Krome for comb, progran, and transpose changes Reply with quote

Please forgive me as I know this has probably been addressed before in this forum, but is there a way I can use my i-pad to send “program, combination, and transpose” info to my Krome? I'm the bassist and part time keyboard player here in the Jackson Hole Wyoming area, trying to minimize dead time between songs. I know I can pick a song in a set list on my i-pad (using Band Helper that's capable of sending midi), and have it change the above settings. I've read and printed a lot about SysEx transmission and receiving in this forum and in the parameter guide, but can't begin to get my mind wrapped around it. I have a computer guy that together we can hopefully figure it out with any specific information I can collect here.
Well hell I'm not even sure how to connect the ipad to the Krome. The Korg support folk told me to get the Korg Plug Key, but when I took a look, I could only see a midi “in” port for using a keyboard to send midi to the i-pad to play Garage Band or some other ipad music program. Another suggested an Apple USB camera adapter. When I looked at that I couldn't tell the difference between it and a regular charge/data cable of which I have a drawer full.

Thanks for any information you might have. Jeff Smith
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prgtrdr



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 29
Location: United States

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a couple of reasons, you're going to need a separate interface to do what you want. Kenton makes one that's a little pricey, here's a link.

You can also jury-rig one with a Raspberry Pi. Here's a good article about it. Pay particular attention to the info about alsa.
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jws55



Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 11
Location: United States

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply prgtrdr, I’ve actually made some headway on this. I bought the Apple camera adapter with the charge port, because the Krome doesn’t supply a charge to the I-pad.
I figured out how to get “Band helper” to change the voices in program mode when I select the songs, but can’t figure out how to do it for combi mode, or transpose. BandHelper is pretty much what I have to use, as its what the rest of the band uses. If you can tell me what I’m doing wrong I would be indebted to you.
With just the program side selecting automatically it was still a huge improvement. Played last Monday thru Wednesday at the Cowboy Bar here in Jackson, Wy. and didn’t get blamed once for dead time on stage. If I ever get another keyboard it will be a silver one. Cannot see the buttons unless the stage lights are on, so I’ve been forced to use the touch screen trying not to fat-finger anything. Thanks if you can help.
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prgtrdr



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 29
Location: United States

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff, you have my sympathy w/r/t using Krome for live performance. Some of the design decisions are truly maddening, like who thought that using a touch screen to change programs would be easy for anyone with normal-sized fingers, and during a live song??? It's caused me to try all kinds of work-arounds to change programs. For example, I bought a Behringer MIDI pedal board but it's big and heavy and you tend to forget what program goes with which pedal button. Then I tried using RPPR sequences but that takes away valuable keys on a 61, and how many times did I trigger the RPPR unintentionally? I also bought a Korg NanoPAD and connected it to the Krome through the Raspberry Pi but that thing is definitely NOT made for road (ab)use. I've even considered ditching the Krome and picking up a used XF6 or MoxF6, both of which have lots of good old-fashioned buttons!

That said, maybe the answer could be an iPad. I think my previous response might have been colored by my experience with an older iPad, pre-USB-C. My understanding from your experience is that the newer models are plug-compatible with the Krome's USB port, at least when you use certain camera adapters (Would you please post the model of the iPad and name of the camera adapter you're using? Apple sells many.)

It would help you could provide more detail about what's not working with combi changes, etc. Which MIDI Channel Message(s) are you trying to use? Does the Krome respond incorrectly? Or not at all?

One trick I've found useful is to connect the Krome to a PC and run the MidiOX utility watching the MIDI data while you manually try the key sequences you want to send from the iPad. Take what you see being received and try to transmit similar messages back to the Krome--it's not always a one-to-one match but it can often give you ideas about what's going wrong.

Hope this helps and let me know how it goes.
Bill
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CowboyNQ
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Joined: 28 Sep 2014
Posts: 141
Location: Adelaide, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

prgtrdr wrote:
I've even considered ditching the Krome and picking up a used XF6 or MoxF6, both of which have lots of good old-fashioned buttons!


Anything you can do using the touch screen you can do using buttons on the Krome. No need to get rid of it.

Personally I much prefer the touch screen, but it's certainly not mandatory.
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jws55



Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 11
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the responses.

The I-pad adapter is “Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter” and the I-pad itself is a model A1893 or MR7J2LL/A according to the info in my settings screen.

Don’t have another gig for a couple of weeks, but have to cut concrete for a basement bathroom now says my wife, but that sure is logical hooking up to a pc to see what data is received. I’ll get back on this as soon as I can. Thanks
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prgtrdr



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 29
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CowboyNQ wrote:
Anything you can do using the touch screen you can do using buttons on the Krome..


Really? How about changing individual channel volumes in a combi? How about transposing key or tuning up/down? Change keyboard split/overlay?

Don't get me wrong, I love the Krome and have used it live for many years. It's feature set at the price point is amazing. But over time these things bug me more and more, and I wonder why Korg didn't put a little more thought into it.
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prgtrdr



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 29
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jws55 wrote:
...have to cut concrete for a basement bathroom now says my wife

Assuming your practice room is in the basement, it's good to have a toilet there, especially when the band comes over Very Happy

I picked up a camera adapter and have been messing around with an iPad, BandHelper and the Krome. I was able to change the transpose parameter in 2 different ways:
  1. To change the Global Settings->Basic Setup->Key Transpose setting, use the following SYSEX message in BandHelper's "MIDI Presets->Raw MIDI->Hex Code" section:
    Code:
    f0 7f 00 04 04 00 3f f7
    The 3f value represents the number of semitones you want up or down, in this case down 1. (34:-12 steps, 40:+00 steps, 4C:+12 steps) Note this setting is static and doesn't change when you switch programs or combis so don't forget to change it back for the next tune!
  2. To change the Combi:P3 Timbre->Transpose setting, use an RPN Control Change sequence in the Raw MIDI->Hex Code section:
    Code:
    b0 65 00 b0 64 02 b0 26 00 b0 06 41
    The 41 value in the last sequence b0 06 41 is the MSB Data Entry value set between 34 and 4C as described above. You can also use b0 60 00 to Increment (one semitone) or b0 61 00 to Decrement by one semitone from wherever it's currently set. Note this setting only stays as long as you're using the Combi; if you switch it will revert to +00 unless you save it, of course. (If you're not familiar with RPNs here's a great article about them.)

To change a voice in Combi mode, use a Parameter Change message:
Code:
f0 42 30 00 01 15 41 00 00 0c 00 00 00 00 00 bb pp f7
where bb = 00-05 (Bank A-F) and pp = 00-7f (Program 0-127.)
So
Code:
f0 42 30 00 01 15 41 00 00 0c 00 00 00 00 00 01 05 f7
sets the currently selected Combi channel 0 to Bank B Program 5.

To be sure you're changing the right Combi you may want to preface this with a Mode Change to Combi Play
Code:
F0 42 30 00 01 15 4E 00 F7
followed by a Bank Select and Program Change
Code:
B0 00 00 B0 20 bb C0 pp
where bb and pp are as defined above.

Putting it all together, the sequence:
Code:
F0 42 30 00 01 15 4E 00 F7  B0 00 00 B0 20 01 C0 04 f0 42 30 00 01 15 41 00 00 0c 00 00 00 00 00 01 05 f7
will change the Golden Strings Combi Channel 0 to DWGS-Church Organ 1.

If you haven't already, it's a good idea to study the Krome MIDI Implementation document. There's a lot of important information in there, although it can be daunting to fully comprehend it.

Hope this helps.
Bill


Last edited by prgtrdr on Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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CowboyNQ
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Joined: 28 Sep 2014
Posts: 141
Location: Adelaide, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

prgtrdr wrote:
CowboyNQ wrote:
Anything you can do using the touch screen you can do using buttons on the Krome..


Really? How about changing individual channel volumes in a combi? How about transposing key or tuning up/down? Change keyboard split/overlay?

Dunno about those brother, I was guessing your point was about it being hard to manipulate the screens if your fingers are a little larger in a time critical environment such as live gigging - apologies if I'm mistaken. I should have been a little more precise with my words there - but I was assuming a certain context around patch changing.

I had my entire touch capability go down during pre-show a couple of months back and was able to get through the whole show without dramas using the buttons. Lots of mid-song patch changes etc.

But I confess I've never tried to re-tune the 'board, change keyboard splits or re-mix my combi volumes mid show - I prefer to have that stuff set up prior. I find with any keyboard, the more you can prepare for a show in advance, the less stress on the night. Of course I know everyone likes to do things their own way.

My Krome is in the rehearsal room at the moment but when I have time I'll have a look and see if it can be done - if it helps you at all.

Cheers and good luck!
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prgtrdr



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 29
Location: United States

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CowboyNQ wrote:
I was guessing your point was about it being hard to manipulate the screens if your fingers are a little larger in a time critical environment such as live gigging


Yes, it _is_ hard--and I don't think of my fingers as being oversized! I tried using one of those pens with a conductive rubber cap and while it helped somewhat, manipulating the screen was still a problem, especially if it involved dragging or sliding, for example, a volume slider or tuning (pitch) wheel. And don't even think about using the sequence mode note grid.

You're right that the smart thing is to set everything up beforehand and just switch around using the bank/program buttons. Unfortunately sometimes the band I play with likes to change things up at the last minute, especially when the singer decides he wants to move something down a semitone or two. Even after poking the screen to bring up the Global Settings menu (and hopefully remembering how to get there) and dial in a transpose value, doing so messes up your splits/layers. Am I going to even trying futzing with that in between songs during a live performance? Not unless I'm absolutely desperate!

Anyway, thanks for your offer but not necessary. I'm going to put some work into getting the iPad stuff to work. Maybe when it's all done we'll have setlist capability like the Kronos.
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voip
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Joined: 27 Nov 2014
Posts: 1817

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if drag works on the Krome's screen, and certainly not on list box scroll bars. There is an attendant risk is of scratching the screen. Better to select a control and use the selection/value dial on the right of the screen.

I found using fingernails gives reasonably good pointing accuracy.
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CowboyNQ
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Joined: 28 Sep 2014
Posts: 141
Location: Adelaide, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

prgtrdr wrote:
... the singer decides he wants to move something down a semitone or two. Even after poking the screen to bring up the Global Settings menu (and hopefully remembering how to get there) and dial in a transpose value, doing so messes up your splits/layers. Am I going to even trying futzing with that in between songs during a live performance? Not unless I'm absolutely desperate!


Singers ARGHHH!!!!!

I feel your pain. And totally agree with you on how you can't transpose and maintain the integrity of your existing splits. I'm with you, I don't go near that stuff during a show. I'm lucky that our vocalists don't make our bands change key on a whim. If they did they'd be beaten to death by me and the guitarists heheh.

Anyway, best to you.
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