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johnsmies
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2002
Posts: 527
Location: Holland
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 Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Personally I disagree with those who maintain that the PA1000 is not worth the extra cash. I had the PA700 for a short while and later on purchased the PA1000. A while ago someone here on the forum posted a comparison charts between the three models: https://imgur.com/dgHYU9P
From personal experience and without wanting to shortchange the PA700 I can say this:
- aftertouch
- better keybed
- much better internal amplificaction
- tilted screen
- VOCALISER
- more sounds and styles
- MORE INTERNAL BASIC SAMPLES
- more Ram memory for storing external samples.
Probably forgetting a few things but anyway they are both great boards and both worth their money, it is just that you get what you pay for !!!
regards
John Smies
software JS Resources:
http://pasounds.intropagina.nl/ |
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Biggles
Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2017
Posts: 1006
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 10:26 am Post subject: |
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I said that the 1000 does not offer value for money at what is included within it compared to the 700.
The items that you list put in cash terms add £600 to the cost of the 700 to give the 1000, that is a lost of cash in my book for a limited number of extra features.
As I posted I bought a 700 and a Kross 2 for the same amount of cash as what a 1000 costs.
But it is what matters to the buyer that is important, best action is to watch the Korg Video Manuals for both models then go off and play both back to back and then make your own mind up.
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Biggles
Lancashire, UK |
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Scott
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 1015
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| Biggles wrote: | a lost of cash in my book for a limited number of extra features.
As I posted I bought a 700 and a Kross 2 for the same amount of cash as what a 1000 costs.
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I've made a similar suggestion to people looking at the Nord Stage series. Instead of the 88, I'd usually suggest buying the 73, and with the rather large price difference, get a lightweight hammer action 88. Total weight goes up just a little, but it's easier to move 40-50 lbs total in 2 pieces than in one, so it actually improves portability, plus you end up with the advantage of having both hammer and non-hammer actions available to you, and backup at a gig if a board goes down. But it's still not the right solution for everyone... some people really want to keep it to one board (maybe for space reasons, or even just the look), or they already have another board of some sort they want to keep using and splitting the Stage functionality into two would mean dealing with three. So despite the rather large price difference, the 88 is still the better solution for some, and some of those same factors apply in comparing a single-board PA1000 with a dual-board PA700-and-something-else.
Though also, while taking the $700 price difference between a PA700 and PA1000 and buying another board with it could be a pretty cool way to go (and there are lots of nice possibilities... Yamaha MX61/49, Behringer Deep Mind 12/6, Korg Minilogues/Microkorgs, Casio XW-P1, Roland Gaia/JDxi, Numa Compact 2/2X, Kawai ES110, or if you raise the budget just a little, Kross/Juno DS), you still don't end up getting the specific things the PA1000 gives you. I actually already own four of those boards I just listed, but for some of the things I wanted the PA for, the PA1000 would serve me better than the combination of PA700 with any of them. The closest good pair might be the PA700+Numa, which would give me some of the most important things--a better piano action and aftertouch (and I could use it to drive the PA700)--plus I'd even get the benefit of more than 61 keys. That 88 keys could make it a better way for some people to go, since the PA700/1000's 61 can be limiting. But I'd still have a weaker sound system, and I would be dealing with more gear which would take longer to bring in and set up, and part of my goal was to get a super fast and light setup. My solution was to get a good deal on an open box PA1000 which reduced the price difference. 
If amount of gear and setup time isn't an issue, I really like the idea of putting some kind of 88 under a PA700/1000. For high portability and low price, ES110 gets you hammer action, or Numa gets you lighter weight and more sounds/features of its own (and of more interest if pairing with a 700, aftertouch).
In theory, I have a number of 88s I can put under my PA. In practice, because of the kind of things I specifically bought my PA for, I doubt I'll bother. But maybe sometimes... |
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tkarlmann
Full Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
Posts: 104
Location: Rockford, IL, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:06 am Post subject: Re: Essential features - Pa1000 |
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| siebenhirter wrote: | | adimatis wrote: | | .. you pay more for extra features, but in my opinion they are not essential .. |
Except the more extensive equipment IMHO the most important difference between Pa700 and Pa1000 is the aftertouch keyboard.
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Since when does the Pa700 not have Aftertouch? The Pa700 User Guide has about 12 hits for "Aftertouch"! |
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tkarlmann
Full Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
Posts: 104
Location: Rockford, IL, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:12 am Post subject: Pa700 Aftertouch? |
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| The Pa700 User Manual lists 12 'hits' for "Aftertouch"; the Pa1000 has many more hits. What is the real difference? They BOTH seem to have the Aftertouch feature. |
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Biggles
Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2017
Posts: 1006
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Essential features - Pa1000 |
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| tkarlmann wrote: | | siebenhirter wrote: | | adimatis wrote: | | .. you pay more for extra features, but in my opinion they are not essential .. |
Except the more extensive equipment IMHO the most important difference between Pa700 and Pa1000 is the aftertouch keyboard.
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Since when does the Pa700 not have Aftertouch? The Pa700 User Guide has about 12 hits for "Aftertouch"! |
The 700 does not have aftertouch despite what the manual says.
With the 700 there is just the key velocity adjustments that are available to select and use.
The 1000 has the same velocity adjustments but has Aftertouch control which is set via its own Menu section in Global.
Aftertouch is a MIDI control action that is initiated by pressure on the key after it has been pressed, what the pressure controls is assignable in keyboards equipped with this feature.
I can certainly see it being a great feature and why so many buyers would desire the feature.
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Biggles
Lancashire, UK |
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Scott
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 1015
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: Pa700 Aftertouch? |
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| tkarlmann wrote: | | The Pa700 User Manual lists 12 'hits' for "Aftertouch"; the Pa1000 has many more hits. What is the real difference? They BOTH seem to have the Aftertouch feature. |
The PA700 can recognize aftertouch data if it receives it (i.e. from a MIDI sequence or from an external keyboard that has it), and it can be programmed into songs, but the PA700 keys cannot generate aftertouch. The PA1000 keys can generate aftertouch as you play, it's a great way to add expressivity to your live playing. |
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gwc uk
Junior Member
Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 65
Location: LINCOLN UK
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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I have been playing keyboards with after-touch for past 12 years which now becomes a natural automatic way of playing with expression and more enjoyment.
Same example is keybed quality & feel once lived with it would be difficult to do without.
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PA1000 + NP30 Twinset |
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tkarlmann
Full Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
Posts: 104
Location: Rockford, IL, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: Essential features - Pa1000 |
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| Biggles wrote: | | tkarlmann wrote: | | siebenhirter wrote: | | adimatis wrote: | | .. you pay more for extra features, but in my opinion they are not essential .. |
Except the more extensive equipment IMHO the most important difference between Pa700 and Pa1000 is the aftertouch keyboard.
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Since when does the Pa700 not have Aftertouch? The Pa700 User Guide has about 12 hits for "Aftertouch"! |
The 700 does not have aftertouch despite what the manual says.
With the 700 there is just the key velocity adjustments that are available to select and use.
The 1000 has the same velocity adjustments but has Aftertouch control which is set via its own Menu section in Global.
Aftertouch is a MIDI control action that is initiated by pressure on the key after it has been pressed, what the pressure controls is assignable in keyboards equipped with this feature.
I can certainly see it being a great feature and why so many buyers would desire the feature. |
Thank you for the informed reply!!!! I watched a YT video of a "fancy Italian Guy" Playing a lot of Aftertouch on a Pa4x, and I was hooked on the feature.
Thanks also to "Scott" who further explained that Pa700 cannot GENERATE Aftertouch, but merely recognises it!! Thanks to you BOTH! |
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jeanloop
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:14 am Post subject: |
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You can send aftertouch to PA700 with a pedal (eg :MidiSolutions Pedal Controller or Yamaha MFC10).
In my case, as I play PA4X from Havian30 which as no aftetouch, I always send aftertouch with pedal.
It would be a problem if aftertouch was polyphonic but it is not the case.
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Korg PA4X 76. Korg PA700. Yamaha DGX-670 |
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1843
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| Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:44 pm Post subject: Pa1000 vs Pa700 - Keys with Aftertouch |
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| jeanloop wrote: | | .. send aftertouch with pedal ... |
As written in Midi Implementation charts, aftertouch with every Pa-Arranger (also Micro-Arranger) can be used with external aftertouch-controllers. There are much simply and cheap solutions - for many years eg I use a Fame KC-49 with connected pedal to send aftertouch (preferred its latch function for sound-controlling instead short-timed AT-messages with keys).
As mentioned from user "gwc uk" a natural automatic way of playing with expression and more enjoyment one better becomes with keybed quality & feel of semi-weighted keys with velocity and aftertouch than with other controllers.
Aftertouch can be sent with external pedal, sliders, x-y-controller, knobs etc but especially well gradated nuances with DNC-sounds would not be easy to do without built-in aftertouch keys (Manual Pa700 page 956) - that is what I meant with the most important difference between Pa700 and Pa1000, but does not concern "Pa1000 vs 700 sound quality" directly.
PS: With built-in aftertouch keys aftertouch comfortably is assigned to be activated/deactivated on each Keyboard Sound and there are settings to adjust the aftertouch sensitivity according to your custom use.
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kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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Scott
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 1015
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| Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Pa1000 vs Pa700 - Keys with Aftertouch |
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| jeanloop wrote: | You can send aftertouch to PA700 with a pedal (eg :MidiSolutions Pedal Controller or Yamaha MFC10).
In my case, as I play PA4X from Havian30 which as no aftetouch, I always send aftertouch with pedal. |
Yes... since the boards recognize aftertouch commands that have been generated by some external device, a programmable pedal could do it. Of course, it is still a different visceral/expressive experience, as others have alluded to as well. Which gets back to the fact that a board's electronics recognizing aftertouch commands is not the same as a board's keys actually having aftertouch, i.e. the ability to send a command by pressing a key harder after you've already played it. Continuing...
| siebenhirter wrote: | | Aftertouch can be sent with external pedal, sliders, x-y-controller, knobs etc but especially well gradated nuances with DNC-sounds would not be easy to do without built-in aftertouch keys |
Yes, from a playability perspective, it's quite different. With AT, you get the effect by "leaning into the note" with the actual finger you're playing it with, you may be able to feel and respond to increasing resistance as you push harder, and the effect naturally ends when you release the note. That's very different from holding the note with one hand and using your other hand (or a foot) to bring in the effect (especially if you use a slider/pedal/wheel that is not sprung, so tension never varies and you must manually bring the controller back to end the effect.) It becomes more of an "operation you perform" rather than a natural, organic extension of your playing.
Also, the idea of using some alternate control to generate aftertouch (if you must) pretty much only makes sense if you're trying to take advantage of an AT parameter that is already factory-programmed into the sound. If you're doing your own sound creation/tweaking, it generally really isn't sensible to, for example, program an external slider to send aftertouch, and then program the board so that aftertouch opens the filter (add brightness) or increased LFO amount (add vibrato), whatever it is you want it to do. You could generally just program the slider to open the filter or adjust the LFO directly, there's no need for the interim steps of routing it all through aftertouch commands. |
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midimusa
Full Member
Joined: 29 Sep 2011
Posts: 161
Location: Estonia
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| Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | only makes sense if you're trying to take advantage of an AT parameter that is already factory-programmed into the sound |
Basically it is one possibility to give nuances to a sound and not only for factory-programmed. In Sound edit mode You can change freely that things (AT) to other controllers. Aftertouch just give more possibilities for playing notes in real time (pressing to key harder or softer). Peronally I use it for brass or organ sounds to add more modulation, in guitar sounds to add overdrive etc.
Anyway it depends how the sound is programmed and what kind of controllers it recognizes.
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Korg PA1000. |
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Scott
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 1015
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| Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| midimusa wrote: | | Quote: | | only makes sense if you're trying to take advantage of an AT parameter that is already factory-programmed into the sound |
Basically it is one possibility to give nuances to a sound and not only for factory-programmed. |
I think you may have left out the most important part of that quote, "the idea of using some alternate control to generate aftertouch" is what I said only made sense for factory programmed sounds (since if you're programming the sound yourself, it's more sensible to program something for a controller you do have than for one you don't). If you DO have aftertouch in your keys, absolutely, it's a GREAT tool to use, in either circumstance, factory programmed nor not!
| midimusa wrote: | | In Sound edit mode You can change freely that things (AT) to other controllers. |
Yes, though as discussed, you lose a kind of expressive playability. Also, you have situations where, okay, maybe you can generate your aftertouch commands from your expression pedal, but you often have only one expression pedal, so that also means you've lost the ability to use that pedal for whatever else you may have already been using it for. |
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Musicwithharry
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 694
Location: Anamosa, IA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:45 am Post subject: |
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I am sure that there are some sonic differences between the PA700 and the PA1000, but I think that they may be more evident when using the internal speaker systems.
The PA1000 has a more robust sound system than the PA700. The PA1000 has 33 watts per channel and that runs through a 2-speaker system per side (woofer and tweeter).
The PA700 has 25 watts per channel and that runs through a single speaker per side.
For those who perform live and use the internal speakers as their main sound source and/or for live monitoring, that would make a difference.
As far as resources between the two, the PA1000 has more memory available for samples and features more samples than the PA700 does. That at least allows for more sounds to be available on the PA1000 than the PA700.
Sonically, if using the outputs instead of the internal speaker system, I do not think that there would be much difference in the sounds of the units.
I will say that I have loaded some PA1000 style resources in my PA700 and there is a difference in the sound quality - they are EQ'd a bit differently on some of the styles. The styles I loaded into the PA700 from the PA1000 appear to have more high end EQ on them.
I have the PA700 and considered getting the PA1000 when I first was buying the PA700. I decided that I did not want to wait for the PA1000 and I was happy that I did not because it took months after the PA1000 was announced before it actually was available for sale (at least here in the USA).
I do not need the extra features on the PA1000, so the PA700 was a sound purchase for me (I bought mine in September 2017). I will be getting another one (as a backup unit) in September 2019.
I do think that the PA700 is a better value than the PA1000. The 'bang for the buck', I believe, is much more evident in the PA700. I think that the PA700 is the best arranger keyboard in its price range and even hits a bit higher than what the other companies have on offer for more money. It is THAT good of a unit.
Yes, there are compromises when you consider that it does not transmit aftertouch from its keyboard, but that is okay with me. It also does not feature the harmony stuff for vocals. That too is not a big deal for me.
What I would LOVE to see is another 88-key variation of a Korg PA series keyboard. Something like what the PA588 offered. The PA588 was basically a PA500 but had an extra piano sample from the C720 with an 88-key keybed. That would give the best of both worlds, in my opinion.
A good friend of mine has the Havian 30 and she loves it. She is a pianist and loves the action. I liked it too and helped her program it for when she plays live. The only problem with the Havian 30 was that is was based on the PA300 and so it was a bit limited. Considering that they marketed it as a piano-type unit instead of like what they are marketing the PA700/PA1000 as, that was okay to understand its limitations.
If Korg made a PA788 (if basing its design after the PA588), I would be one of the first in line to get one. I'd love the functionality of the PA700 in an 88-key package. THAT would be great and would allow me to lighten my load for what I would bring to a gig, for sure.
Grace,
Harry
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Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
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