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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126
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 Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:02 am Post subject: Kronos LS and aftertouch |
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According to some comments on youtube, it seems the Kronos LS has aftertouch afterall...
Anyone here that can comfirm this?
From the same comments, inhave learned that many people dont like the touch, as its extremely light even for syth action... have we seen any reports from that?
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Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
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voip
Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2014
Posts: 3772
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Korg explicitly state in product literature and User Manual and parameter Guide, that the LS doesn't have aftertouch. Maybe someone has confused note-release with aftertouch.
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Joe Gerardi
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 534
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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It responds to aftertouch via MIDI, so if you connect a controller to it, so when the controller is played (if IT has AT) then the LS will play aftertouch.
..Joe
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Current setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88 Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Roland M-GS64, Alesis QSR, Yamaha KX88 & KX76, Roland Super-JX, Juno-Stage, Kawai K4, Kawai K1II. |
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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Gerardi wrote: | It responds to aftertouch via MIDI, so if you connect a controller to it, so when the controller is played (if IT has AT) then the LS will play aftertouch.
..Joe |
So the LS keyboard does not have aftertouch altough the Kronos engine supports it..
I domt think you buy an 88 key lightweight keyboard, to require another keyboard if you want to us ethe aftertouch?
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Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
www.keyszone.boards.net |
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danmusician
Platinum Member
Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 875
Location: Southern PA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| Bachus wrote: | | Joe Gerardi wrote: | It responds to aftertouch via MIDI, so if you connect a controller to it, so when the controller is played (if IT has AT) then the LS will play aftertouch.
..Joe |
So the LS keyboard does not have aftertouch altough the Kronos engine supports it..
I domt think you buy an 88 key lightweight keyboard, to require another keyboard if you want to us ethe aftertouch? |
I took delivery of an LS a couple of weeks ago. Ended up returning because I didn't care for the action. I can confirm that it is true, the physical keyboard does not create or transmit aftertouch. The LS will, however, respond to aftertouch from an external MIDI source. This could be an external MIDI sequencer/DAW or physical controller.
If aftertouch is important to you, the LS is not the device for you. In the same way, if a weighted action is important to you, the LS is not the device for you. I agree that not putting aftertouch on the LS is a curious choice. Personally, I have only very rarely used aftertouch, so it makes no difference to me.
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Kronos 2 88, Kronos Classic 73, PX-5S, Kronos 2 61, Roli Seaboard Rise 49 |
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Joe Gerardi
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 534
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Bachus wrote: | So the LS keyboard does not have aftertouch altough the Kronos engine supports it..
I domt think you buy an 88 key lightweight keyboard, to require another keyboard if you want to us ethe aftertouch? |
It kind of makes sense: How many real pianos out there have AT? Granted, in this day and age, everyone's about one keyboard, either due to money, or not wanting a real rig onstage but many of us understand that an accurate pianistic playing style on and 88 is one thing, and non-weighted playing -organ, synth - is another. The lighter touch is for people that aren't schooled in the pianistic approach, but want to play a piano-style. Me? I like the idea- as I get older, a lighter touch is welcome for these old mitts of mine: after 55 years of playing, they deserve a rest.
Besides, I have a lot of keyboards with AT, and an MX-8 to control everything, so one controlling another is no big deal- it's actually the way I generally do things on the boards, and there are many pieces I play where I never actually touch the keyboard generating the sound when I'm playing the notes- my preferred keyboard layout won't allow that. My Kronos is a perfect example: It's a 61, so I don't ever use its piano natively- it's gets moved over to my KX88 or the XV-88. (Along with the Juno-Stage's and the Kurzweil K2VP's, all stacked.)
..Joe
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Current setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88 Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Roland M-GS64, Alesis QSR, Yamaha KX88 & KX76, Roland Super-JX, Juno-Stage, Kawai K4, Kawai K1II. |
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mrpanoff
Joined: 05 Aug 2011
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Any idea if a deliberate lack of Aftertouch may add up to the lightness of the keys perhaps? |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Gerardi wrote: | | Bachus wrote: | So the LS keyboard does not have aftertouch altough the Kronos engine supports it..
I domt think you buy an 88 key lightweight keyboard, to require another keyboard if you want to us ethe aftertouch? |
It kind of makes sense: How many real pianos out there have AT? Granted, in this day and age, everyone's about one keyboard, either due to money, or not wanting a real rig onstage but many of us understand that an accurate pianistic playing style on and 88 is one thing, and non-weighted playing -organ, synth - is another. The lighter touch is for people that aren't schooled in the pianistic approach, but want to play a piano-style. Me? I like the idea- as I get older, a lighter touch is welcome for these old mitts of mine: after 55 years of playing, they deserve a rest.
Besides, I have a lot of keyboards with AT, and an MX-8 to control everything, so one controlling another is no big deal- it's actually the way I generally do things on the boards, and there are many pieces I play where I never actually touch the keyboard generating the sound when I'm playing the notes- my preferred keyboard layout won't allow that. My Kronos is a perfect example: It's a 61, so I don't ever use its piano natively- it's gets moved over to my KX88 or the XV-88. (Along with the Juno-Stage's and the Kurzweil K2VP's, all stacked.)
..Joe |
I will always want realistic piano on ANY keyboard I buy. But wanting it and deciding not having it is a deal breaker or not, is another.
IMO, not having AfterTouch on a +$3000 keyboard is just another manufacturer short cut to save a few pennies. Without AT, there is less to maintain and deal with by the manufacturer. I know these co's are always doing key bed variations. So not having AT makes is easier as the key bed is the heaviest/costliest component and can be troublesome.
I am not into having 10 keyboards in my home studio. 2 is definitely enough for my music production. But that's my bubble.
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KK
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2016
Posts: 1422
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| mrpanoff wrote: | | Any idea if a deliberate lack of Aftertouch may add up to the lightness of the keys perhaps? |
The FSR component for aftertouch (AT) and its felt under the Kronos keyboard weight almost nothing. The LS is lighter because of the different type of action, which doesn't include things like the heavy metallic "weights" found on the conventional RH3 action. |
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mrpanoff
Joined: 05 Aug 2011
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| KK wrote: | | mrpanoff wrote: | | Any idea if a deliberate lack of Aftertouch may add up to the lightness of the keys perhaps? |
The FSR component for aftertouch (AT) and its felt under the Kronos keyboard weight almost nothing. The LS is lighter because of the different type of action, which doesn't include things like the heavy metallic "weights" found on the conventional RH3 action. |
So was it purely for economic reasons then?
Any idea if the LS keybed uses any type of Diode Matrix or not?
I thought if I should take the risks of ordering one as a spare part to fit into Korg Triton Extreme 88 that uses a 88 Fatar and also has an input for 76-key Yamaha FS-E76. Some people are convincing me that it''s not nuclear physics after all, and rubber contacts are rubber contacts.
Was thinking about a Fatar TP/8SK from PA4X that uses probably the same Fatar circuitry as the Triton 88, but then the the LS is much lighter. |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| mrpanoff wrote: | | KK wrote: | | mrpanoff wrote: | | Any idea if a deliberate lack of Aftertouch may add up to the lightness of the keys perhaps? |
The FSR component for aftertouch (AT) and its felt under the Kronos keyboard weight almost nothing. The LS is lighter because of the different type of action, which doesn't include things like the heavy metallic "weights" found on the conventional RH3 action. |
So was it purely for economic reasons then?
Any idea if the LS keybed uses any type of Diode Matrix or not?
I thought if I should take the risks of ordering one as a spare part to fit into Korg Triton Extreme 88 that uses a 88 Fatar and also has an input for 76-key Yamaha FS-E76. Some people are convincing me that it''s not nuclear physics after all, and rubber contacts are rubber contacts.
Was thinking about a Fatar TP/8SK from PA4X that uses probably the same Fatar circuitry as the Triton 88, but then the the LS is much lighter. |
let us know how your DIY works out
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Kronos 88. MODX8
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KK
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2016
Posts: 1422
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| Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| mrpanoff wrote: | So was it purely for economic reasons then?
Any idea if the LS keybed uses any type of Diode Matrix or not?
I thought if I should take the risks of ordering one as a spare part to fit into Korg Triton Extreme 88 that uses a 88 Fatar and also has an input for 76-key Yamaha FS-E76. Some people are convincing me that it''s not nuclear physics after all, and rubber contacts are rubber contacts.
Was thinking about a Fatar TP/8SK from PA4X that uses probably the same Fatar circuitry as the Triton 88, but then the the LS is much lighter. |
It's quite likely the LS action uses a diode matrix, otherwise it would end up with way too many wires, a totally different logic, etc. About economical reasons, I think Korg simply decided to offer a different lighter action for people who might want it. The weighted RH3 is quite solid, very well built and the tolerances are very tight (after all it is first of all a graded piano action). This means it is complicated to add an AT device under it which will be very effective, since you have very limited movement for it. My guess is that if the LS action was built almost from scratch, they didn't want to invest too far in advance in adding AT on it as it is quite complicated to achieve good results (high R&D costs). But who knows, if they sell many LS, they could decide to improve on it and add AT someday, otherwise not.
Certain Fatar keybeds offer slightly better AT control compared to the weighted RH3, but their looser tolerances create a very different feel and the material they use to stop the keys once pushed is so hard I personally feel my fingers are hitting concrete, so much that I sold a previous Kurzweil for that reason. Of course, everyone has different tastes and this applies to keyboard actions, so YMMV.  |
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mrpanoff
Joined: 05 Aug 2011
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:57 am Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: | | let us know how your DIY works out |
I'll try to not forget, been nibbling at it since 2013
This time the TP/31 stands no chance though, as it has ultimately become destroying my cartilage with its crazy 75 to 95 grams downweight. Whereas a light touch upright piano is 30. |
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mrpanoff
Joined: 05 Aug 2011
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| KK wrote: |
It's quite likely the LS action uses a diode matrix, otherwise it would end up with way too many wires, a totally different logic, etc. |
So do you think a qualified tech can scan these matrices and make them work together?
The Triton uses dedicated KLM-2332 and KLM-2331 boards to fit the Fatar, but the KLM-2089 SCAN BOARD can be directly connected to a Yamaha FS-E76 type keyboard. |
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KK
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2016
Posts: 1422
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| Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| mrpanoff wrote: | | KK wrote: |
It's quite likely the LS action uses a diode matrix, otherwise it would end up with way too many wires, a totally different logic, etc. |
So do you think a qualified tech can scan these matrices and make them work together?
The Triton uses dedicated KLM-2332 and KLM-2331 boards to fit the Fatar, but the KLM-2089 SCAN BOARD can be directly connected to a Yamaha FS-E76 type keyboard. |
It's complicated. You have to find a tech good at logic circuits to compare/define the custom rows/columns/phantoms arrangement of both units (note that he might need to design a custom "fitting circuit" to match both). He might also need to match the op-amp AT circuit on the unit you want to modify. Call your local music stores, sometimes they have guys with lots of experience.
Of course, a much simpler and less risky/expensive solution would be to MIDI control one synth with the other. |
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