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[Musicwithharry]

Good Morning

As many of you heave read in my previous posts, I have a PA700 (Serial # under 140) and have not upgraded to the latest OS (1.4?).

I have had a slight quirk when using the Ensemble feature. I play at nursing homes for a living and play the Big Band styles and other styles for music anywhere from the 1920's to the 1970's for the residents of these homes.

When have a set of sounds put together for each song, I use the STS settings to switch between different instruments within the same style, allowing me to 'medley' up to (and sometimes more) than 4 songs within the same style.

Here is an example for when I play 'It Had to be You':

STS1 - Folk Sax (sound 1), Flute (sound 2) and Sistro (sound three). In 'It Had to be You', I use the sax in the first verse, add the flute to the sax in the second verse, and then the Sistro to both other sounds on the last verse. I have the Ensemble setting to trigger on the sax part (not the flute or Sistro) only.
STS2 - Jazz Guitar (sound 1), Pad (sound 2). This STS is used for another song called 'By the Light of the Silvery Moon' within the same style - I simply adjust the tempo to be a bit faster and start playing the other song. The Ensemble is set to trigger on the Jazz Guitar

When I activate the Ensemble, in just about any style or STS, I notice that when I hit a chord and hit a lead note on the top at the same time (I have the split activated) I do not get the Ensemble chord block on the lead notes when I am pressing down the chord notes on the bottom of the keyboard. I have to press the Chord notes first and then a split second (or less) later, hit the lead notes above to hear the Block chords from the Ensemble. I usually hit the new chord before I have to play the lead note(s) above in order to hear the Ensemble feature working. It only happens when I first hit the Chord and lead notes at the same time. Once it registers, everything is fine. It does not continue if I hold down the Chord and start to play - only when it first happens. I suspect that the computer is registering the Chord I am playing to generate the Ensemble notes for the right hand.

I have had to adjust my playing to where I hit the chord right before I want the solo voices (right hand) to sound in an Ensemble setting.

To my knowledge, this happens on everything that I would use in an Ensemble in order to have seamless Ensemble sounds when playing the right hand.

I do not have the Ensemble activated throughout the entire song, usually at the more full parts of a song (as if the entire brass section is playing at the end of the song). If I play a Polka (which are big here in certain parts of Iowa), the same thing happens.

I know that the computer needs a bit of time to generate the chord structure for the Ensemble once I hit the chord, but I also used to use a Roland E-09 as my main arranger and NEVER had computational time issues by the computer in order to figure out the chord I was playing.

Do I have something set wrong? It is not a huge deal, because I have adjusted my playing technique to compensate for this, but it would be nice to have both the Ensemble notes playing at the same time as I hit the chords in the left hand.

I also used to have a Korg PA500 and noticed this to be a problem with it too. Maybe it is just the way Korg computes the note arrangement in the Ensemble feature.

I have had my PA700 since September 2017 and an quite well versed in its operation. I use the Songbook to trigger MP3 files and keyboard sets for my original material and also use the sequencer for live work. My particular issue is strictly when using the styles and the Ensemble feature.

It is not a deal-breaker for me as I LOVE the PA700. I just wondered if someone else had this issue too and maybe there is a setting I do not have set properly.

Grace,
Harry
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[jgorin]

Harry,

As a brand-new Pa700 User, I'm working on getting my head around all the really incredible features it has to offer. So, I'm working on designing a setup for a song and, in the manual, the Ensemble section states: "There are several types of Ensemble, but with MOST of them what you play with your right hand will be harmonized with . . your left hand." If I'm using a recorded style track and have split off, will Ensemble recognize chords?

Thanks for your help.
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Korg Pa700, Yamaha P-105, Nektar Panorama P6, Reason 9.5, Remote SL61, Godin xtsa Koa electric, Roland GR55, Nova System, Fender Strat, Boss RC30, Fender Jazz 5-string, Peavy 4-string, BG250 bass amp, Bose Compacts (2), JBL EON18 sub, Yamaha Compass acoustic, Dobro, Lap Steel, Vox Pathfinder 15R.

[jgorin]

So, let me guess - save it as a MIDI file and everything is good, right? Went back and watched the Korg Pa700 Video Series: Recording (again). I was thinking I had to save it as an MP3.
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Korg Pa700, Yamaha P-105, Nektar Panorama P6, Reason 9.5, Remote SL61, Godin xtsa Koa electric, Roland GR55, Nova System, Fender Strat, Boss RC30, Fender Jazz 5-string, Peavy 4-string, BG250 bass amp, Bose Compacts (2), JBL EON18 sub, Yamaha Compass acoustic, Dobro, Lap Steel, Vox Pathfinder 15R.

[Musicwithharry]

[Musicwithharry]

[TedS]

Do you have "memory" activated? In other words, when you play a chord and then release all keys in the chord section (left of the split), is there a chord designation still visible in the display screen? Or does it say "N.C." or No Chord?

Your arranger needs a recognized chord to calculate which notes to add to your right-hand melody note. (I'm assuming that you're only playing ONE note with your right hand, because this is the intended use of Ensemble.) I'm not sure what would happen if you played more than one melody note, but it wouldn't be pretty!

So on to the root cause of your observations...
Korg arrangers "batch" their chord input, and this is usually a good thing. In the world of computer electronics, no two events occur at exactly the same time. Let's say you want to trigger a C-minor chord. You press C and Eb. But let's say you press the Eb about 0.02 seconds before the C. If the chord recognition were NOT "batched," you would begin to hear an Eb bass note, and then an ugly portamento slide to a C bass note and the intended C-minor chord. What your Korg actually does, is something like this... When the first key is pressed, it starts a countdown lasting several milliseconds. You can press or release additional keys while that countdown is running. But when the countdown reaches zero, the Korg will play a chord based on whatever notes are still pressed. All of this happens very quickly! Releasing one, or all keys after the chord is recognized will reset the clock or start the countdown again.

In theory, this "batching" limits the number of chord changes you can play in a given time frame, to perhaps something on the order of a sixteenth note. (Really, how many songs do you know that change chords sixteen times in a beat?) You're correct to observe that it's not as responsive as some other brands, and that you have to "lead" the beat (i.e., press the keys a fraction of a second early) to obtain accurate timing. But I think this is preferable to all of that squealing, portamento, and false chords fumbling around in the display window that you'll see on brands Y and R. The result certainly sounds more professional, and the MIDI score is much cleaner without those false notes!

If you want slightly more responsive chord recognition, you can activate Sync Stop. But this probably won't solve your original problem, namely that the first melody note after a chord change may not have the Ensemble additional notes added to it.

Hope you find this explanation helpful. If anyone else has done similar experiments that affirm or deny my understanding, I would love to hear from you!

[Musicwithharry]

[TedS]

Harry, I never meant to imply that you were hitting the wrong notes, or that your timing was anything less than professional. Arrangers are musical computers running at millions of cycles per second. When you press keys in the chord recognition area, you're not "playing" notes. You're conveying note data to the arranger's logic engine, which converts it- based on a lookup table or decision rules- into a recognized chord.
No matter how good you are, I assure you that you're not pressing two or more notes at EXACTLY the same time. If you don't believe me, turn off the arranger and make a MIDI recording with no quantisation. Play some chords in rapid succession. You'll see that some notes comprising the same chord are recorded a few "ticks" apart. (There are 384 ticks to a beat.)
Brands R and Y do not batch their chord recognition, they have what I would call a 'hair trigger.' So when you attempt to trigger a minor or seventh (i.e., any chord needing at least two keys pressed), if you're not extremely careful to get the root down first, you'll hear two bass notes with a portamento slide between them. It's especially noticeable if the bass voice has a sharp attack. This glitching sounds 'arrangerish' rather than clean and professional. Korg's approach of "batching" is better, if slightly less responsive.

It could be that the E09 avoids applying harmony (ensemble) when multiple RH melody notes are played, because it only has 64 polyphony (vs 128 on the Korg.) You could run out of voices pretty quickly by adding 4 harmony notes to every note played!

[siebenhirter]

[Musicwithharry]

[TedS]

[Musicwithharry]

[karmathanever]

[Musicwithharry]