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Koekepan Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 Posts: 617
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Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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This reminds me that I really should re-investigate the electribe 2, with all the updates it has had. It's not really a workstation, but as a sequencer/synthesis/sampling device, there's a lot to it. |
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fomalhaut Junior Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2015 Posts: 85 Location: Madrid, Spain
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Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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Jan1 wrote: |
Yeah, but when?
The content updates of the new KRONOS and KROME and the 3.0 update for the PA4X are not good signs with regards to the arrival of something new from KORG in this area some time soon.
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When there is enough market competition at the Kronos price point. Currently the Kronos is arguably the king, and Korg R&D budget is being put into other products.
We will only see small incremental updates to the Kronos. I'd love to see the Kronos EX new sounds available for the Kronos, or the piano roll view in the sequencer... a man can dream. |
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GregC Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002 Posts: 9451 Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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fomalhaut wrote: | Jan1 wrote: |
Yeah, but when?
The content updates of the new KRONOS and KROME and the 3.0 update for the PA4X are not good signs with regards to the arrival of something new from KORG in this area some time soon.
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When there is enough market competition at the Kronos price point. Currently the Kronos is arguably the king, and Korg R&D budget is being put into other products.
We will only see small incremental updates to the Kronos. I'd love to see the Kronos EX new sounds available for the Kronos, or the piano roll view in the sequencer... a man can dream. |
other than Montage, and whatever Kurzweil does, Korg Kronos seems to be the only game in town. for all in 1, +$3000.
I think Korg is sort of going thru the motions with Kronos- realistically, after 8 yrs, I don't expect anything. I do like the SE.
My Korg tea leaves are based on all the Korg new products in analog, or digital analog, the under $1500 stuff. Thats shows me the co's priority.
Just like you state, thats where their R & D has been for a few years. _________________ Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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Koekepan Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 Posts: 617
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Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:49 am Post subject: |
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This brings back to mind the idea of a Supertribe. Ultratribe? Megatribe. Gigatribe!
An electribe with more DSP (not hard - technology has kept marching), more polyphony, maybe a touch screen and a few different sound engines? Add a graphic interface for improved composition options, and you're off to the races. |
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Musicwithharry Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012 Posts: 694 Location: Anamosa, IA
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Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:00 am Post subject: |
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I think that Korg should create a new workstation and make it an all-in-one.
I never believed that any workstation was really a 'workstation' unless it had the ability to record audio as easily as it could sequence MIDI events.
Today's technology is getting to the point (and has for quite a while now) where the lines really can be blurred between the hardware stuff and the software stuff. Synths like the OASYS, Kronos, Kross (to a certain extent) and stuff from Roland and Yamaha has proven this. I think that Korg has integrated it a bit better than the others.
I would personally love to see an all-in-one that is reasonably priced. While the Kronos is a GREAT instrument, it does reach a price point where many musicians cannot afford it, even with all that it does.
I happen to like Behringer's offerings too. Maybe they will get into the business of workstation and create something that will appeal to the masses, all of them.
If they do, then they may put the 'Big 3' on notice and bring prices down across the board.
Even the Kross, with its sound on sound audio recording capability, has options that many musicians like. The Krome is a good synth too, but it is only a synth and lacks the true 'workstation' capabilities. The Kross exceeds the Krome in that regard.
With memory seemingly unlimited today, being able to put together a reasonably priced workstation should be pretty easy...
I still think that there is a lot of use for a hardware workstation, but being able to easily make it integrate with a PC (for those who use them for this type of thing) should also be available.
That's my $.02
Grace,
Harry _________________ Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
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Derek Cook Approved Merchant
Joined: 20 Jul 2014 Posts: 1279 Location: Wales, UK
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Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:56 am Post subject: |
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FWIW, my opinion is whilst a new Kronos (with even more engines) would be supercool, this doesn’t seem to be where Korg is going? Lots of smaller synths to a more diverse market at a lower price point probably makes them more money.
The Kronos is an amazing synth and has little competition, so why would Korg be looking to replace it when they can keep selling it as it is, and get more return on the original investment? I see the same in my preferred MIDI foot controller of choice, the Roland FC300. there are few products like it on the market, and little competition (Berhinger have the cheaper end sown up with their FCB), so ten years after I purchased my first one, they are still on the market, and I have just purchased another as a spare (I get a bit twitchy with hardware reliability once the ten year mark is passed, so like to be covered, in case the 1 in n reliability probability of hardware failure will be my unit!).
The other thing to factor in, is that in the past decades, computing resources have gotten yet more powerful, and the quality of VSTis have come on leaps and bounds. So when you can mix and match your own as you want them, is there really a future market for a multi-engine synth? The USP of the Kronos was ten quality engines all integrated, compatible and tuned for the resources of the Kronos.
We can now do that ourselves with our VSTi arsenal and live hosts like Cantabile.
Having said that Korg may surprise us..... and they may decide the market is still there for those that want this working straight out the box.
Personally, I stopped waiting. I got the best that Yamaha and Korg currently provide (Montage 7 and my 2014 Kronos X61) and built a 4U gig rack, which houses:
- Nord G2 Engine (this is still a gorgeous and flexible VA, and only takes up 1U)
- 1U 8 channel line mixer, Transmitter for my IEMs, DMX Interface, USB Hub and small Ethernet Hub (so I can connect to either a Video PC via rtpMIDI or connect to my DAW for faster file transfer then WIFI can give you)
- Small, book sized NUC PC (Core i7, 512G SSD, 32G RAM) and USB Audio/MIDI Interface
I run Cantabile as my live host for VSTis, and it is also my MIDI processor. I have all devices connected in a star arrangement and Cantabile does the MIDI routing as I need it for each song. It also provides backing tracks and a synced light show for the bands I am in that need it.
I don’t think I could ever find a workstation that did all of that with that sort of flexibility, and I think this is the future direction.
If people are interested, I have written two guides on my setup
_________________ Derek Cook - Java Developer
Follow kronos.factory development and submit ideas over at the kronos.factory Trello Board
My Echoes Music Website
My Carreg Ddu Music Website |
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Koekepan Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 Posts: 617
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Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:51 am Post subject: |
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I've done something analogous by building trays for my desktop synths and effects units, mixers and so on. I put those on a keyboard stand, making for a compact but reasonably portable gig setup. Mind you, I still have a Kross on the stand (it's a three-tier) that I can use to sequence everything directly for long, linear pieces. |
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kimu Platinum Member
Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Posts: 1133 Location: Italy,Milan
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Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Korg has release several workstation in last 10 years, many of which are still used by many customers, i think of M3 and M50, Kronos, Krome and Kross.
right now they cover all the market segment with Kross 2, Krome and Kronos 2.
if you look to roland and yamaha and kurzweill, none of them are full fledged workstation, maybe just the FA. all miss a proper linear midi sequencer and stand-alone export audio capabilities.
so the world is moving to a different kind of workstation, kind of hybrid between synth/rompler and daw integration.
I would guess that korg probably will move to a kind of stage/perfomance keyboard like nord with integration with major daw _________________ "Don´t let your Blofeld beside children, mothers-in-law or pets. This could lead to critical interactions."
Waldorf Blofeld User's Manual, Jan 2009
http://rsto.bandcamp.com/album/constellation - Free download of "Constellation"
http://www.youtube.com/user/RedShiftingTheOceans
http://soundcloud.com/kimuz |
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GregC Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002 Posts: 9451 Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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kimu wrote: | Korg has release several workstation in last 10 years, many of which are still used by many customers, i think of M3 and M50, Kronos, Krome and Kross.
right now they cover all the market segment with Kross 2, Krome and Kronos 2.
if you look to roland and yamaha and kurzweill, none of them are full fledged workstation, maybe just the FA. all miss a proper linear midi sequencer and stand-alone export audio capabilities.
so the world is moving to a different kind of workstation, kind of hybrid between synth/rompler and daw integration.
I would guess that korg probably will move to a kind of stage/perfomance keyboard like nord with integration with major daw |
we tried to establish this as the " All in 1 keyboard workstation ". Kronos was the example and 'flag ship '
Just the same, I would agree a lower cost hybrid is more likely. The issue then becomes ' will I like it '.
For example, I do not like the MODX 6/7 key bed action. I find that particular key bed action to be unsatisfactory. Yet, the folks at Yamaha, know their business- many are not bothered by a super light action. _________________ Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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Koekepan Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 Posts: 617
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Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Lots of people won't miss a linear sequencer, I guess.
I certainly would. No linear, no sale on a workstation. At that point it's just a sound source with a controller keyboard, and I have those already. |
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GregC Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002 Posts: 9451 Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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Koekepan wrote: | Lots of people won't miss a linear sequencer, I guess.
I certainly would. No linear, no sale on a workstation. At that point it's just a sound source with a controller keyboard, and I have those already. |
I agree. I am hooked on the SEQ work flow for song writing.
I think I understand the 'reasoning ' of our favorite co's in not having a decent on board SEQ.
On 1 hand, many love their DAWS. Then, I am not finding many consistent song writers who record originals using a Kronos or even MODX [ so far]
The big issue for me, is to protect my SONG/Seq file portfolio. So when Korg makes their move, I might not be able to transition all my material to whatever model they create.
This is a #1 priority for me. _________________ Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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Derek Cook Approved Merchant
Joined: 20 Jul 2014 Posts: 1279 Location: Wales, UK
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Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:46 am Post subject: |
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That will always be a risk, even with computer based DAWs and VSTs - although the VST format has been pretty resilient so far, albeit with the VST2 format now deprecated.
You best Insurance policy is to render all tracks in a song as WAV audio, and any sequence data as MIDI. the former gives you a stem that you might no longer have the source data and instrument to recreate but at least you have the resulting audio. The latter might lose the signal chain that the MIDI fed into, but you still have the performance and you have the option of recreating a chain.
I now do this for all of my songs.
I do record originals using Kronos and MODX, but via a DAW not any internal sequencing. give me a choice between Cubase, VSTis, hardware synths and two 1080p monitors for viewing the workflow, and I just cannot see the point of an internal sequencer (maybe as a scratch pad, which I think is Yamaha’s intention on the MODX). _________________ Derek Cook - Java Developer
Follow kronos.factory development and submit ideas over at the kronos.factory Trello Board
My Echoes Music Website
My Carreg Ddu Music Website |
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GregC Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002 Posts: 9451 Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Derek Cook wrote: | That will always be a risk, even with computer based DAWs and VSTs - although the VST format has been pretty resilient so far, albeit with the VST2 format now deprecated.
You best Insurance policy is to render all tracks in a song as WAV audio, and any sequence data as MIDI. the former gives you a stem that you might no longer have the source data and instrument to recreate but at least you have the resulting audio. The latter might lose the signal chain that the MIDI fed into, but you still have the performance and you have the option of recreating a chain.
I now do this for all of my songs.
I do record originals using Kronos and MODX, but via a DAW not any internal sequencing. give me a choice between Cubase, VSTis, hardware synths and two 1080p monitors for viewing the workflow, and I just cannot see the point of an internal sequencer (maybe as a scratch pad, which I think is Yamaha’s intention on the MODX). |
Solid advice, on preserving my Song data, Derek, thanks
Easy enough to save a SMF for each song. Saving a WAV audio track for each midi channel/track is incredibly tedious - unless there is a way to do this automatically with each SEQ Song file. I rely on Karma and Kronos FX for all songs. I would sooner buy another Kronos , and enjoy it for another 10 years.
I am ready to switch over to recording to Cubase, as I had to rearrange my studio. I have been hooked on the work flow of the SEQ for a few years. Old habits die hard and even more so as I age _________________ Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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Derek Cook Approved Merchant
Joined: 20 Jul 2014 Posts: 1279 Location: Wales, UK
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Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Hi, Greg
Yes it is very hard to change established workflow where you know your system inside out and back to front.
Creating WAV tracks in Cubase is easy. You can do it in one go for all tracks.
I’ve only sporadically used the Kronos sequencer, and then for playback of backing tracks in a small synth duo where I only took the Kronos out. I never used it for recording for the reasons given above.
When you look at the Montage/MODX, I am glad that Yamaha put the development into sonics as opposes to another sequencer that I would not use. I know that others will feel differently as per our priorities on built in sequencers, but it fitted my work flow. _________________ Derek Cook - Java Developer
Follow kronos.factory development and submit ideas over at the kronos.factory Trello Board
My Echoes Music Website
My Carreg Ddu Music Website |
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Koekepan Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 Posts: 617
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Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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KORG could make it easy enough to export stems. Just add a function, and bam. However many WAV files produced, and there you are.
To me, the stems are about as far down the rabbit hole of recording as I choose to go, because when you're using a workstation as a studio master, recording the MIDI becomes an exercise in futility. You'd need, not just the notes and CC changes, but a library of synths that will do the right thing. I'm no museum curator. |
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