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Kronos and ipad

 
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Dtscape1



Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 3
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:24 pm    Post subject: Kronos and ipad Reply with quote

Hi. Really hope someone can advise me..

I'm looking to use the ipad to play backing tracks(drums and the ocassional synth bass) and playing this through the USB input on the Kronos, which will be sent out of audio 1 and 2. I would then like another channel, from the ipad(click track), to go from the headphone socket on the ipad...

Is this possible?

I'm looking to do this with minimal cost as I'm doing a reunion gig with a band I played with 10 years ago(I used 3 keyboards and a drum machine back then) but I'm now down to just the Kronos. Minimal gear..
Cheers 🙂
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19naia
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 1139

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is an iPad app the source of the drum and bass tones or is Kronos?
Also is the click sound based in Kronos tones or iPad app tones?

Have you already tried playing Kronos and iPad together to see that iPad Headphones audio and USB audio out from iPad both work at the same time?
I am away from Kronos and forgot if iPad lets headphones and USB put audio out at the same time.
If they both work for audio out at the same time, i think your solution is up to the apps you use.
Maybe you should mention what apps you have used and how you use them, so someone can recommend some other apps if they can do better.

USB audio will do its own thing regardless of midi channel. So Midi channel separation will happen independent of Audio channel separation.
Kronos only does one audio channel and splits it into Left and right.
The only options Kronos allows is where you buss that audio channel. You could split the click and drum+bass tracks into mono by panning them one to the left and the other to the right and then setting the Kronos Audio page USB audio section to have the L or R side at Zero depending which one channels the click track sound. That will silence it in Kronos audio and leave it sounding out in iPad.

But i hope to hear more here about various apps that may have audio solutions to block audio from going out on iPad USB but let it go out on iPad headphones. New iPads, i hear don’t even give you a headphone jack any more. It all goes out and in, on the same USB C port.

Midi channeling is easy with 16 channels and midi filtering possible, the audio channeling depends on the app or if you are willing to do Mono on both the click and drum+bass tracks.
I know iPad does not like to allow anything flexible with audio. It prefers that you just plug in and it all works to audio from any midi channel driving the sound. Anything fancy will have to come from the apps you use on iPad.
That is why i don’t use Garageband in live situations. I don’t get the audio and midi flexibility that Kronos gives me when i use iPad apps to extend my combi’s on Kronos.
I instead use M1 app which is made by korg and easily becomes an extension to my Kronos combis. But still the audio channeling flexibility is not there for me.
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Dtscape1



Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 3
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply.
I will only have audio files playing from the ipad. No midi. I'm just trying to use the Kronos as a soundcard for a stereo(due to some backings have panning effects which make a big difference) output from ipad. Then, hopefully, I can use the headphone output from the ipad for the click to send to the drummer.
I can't seem to install USB driver at the moment... Hoping when I get the USB converter just plugging it in might trigger it iff(?.. Not up on apple systems).
I'm trying n track.. Its free... But until I get the Kronos connected I won't know...
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geoelectro
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Joined: 14 Sep 2012
Posts: 965
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have played around with my iPad and Kronos. It seems that once the Kronos is plugged into the iPad all the iPad audio goes to the Kronos. Once in the Kronos you can direct it to the other outputs 1&2 or 3&4 etc. However, I've not been able to also use the iPad headphone output at the same time. It seems to be one or the other. If that is indeed the case you're limited to 2 channels.

I run backing tracks from my iPad at church and I just keep it separate from the Kronos.

I have a second iPad that I am playing around with using as a MIDI module with the USB interface. Would be nice to do both with one iPad.

Geo
_________________
Kronos 61 : 3GB RAM 120GB 2nd Drv.
Kronos 2 61
N.I. Komplete 11, Omnisphere 2, VB-3.
HP i7 8GB Win 10
Yamaha P-80 Weighted Keyboard. NanoPad2
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Dtscape1



Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 3
Location: Kent

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you. I thought that might be the case.
What software are you using to play backing tracks?
I'm thinking it might be down to software... I wanted to try garage band but my ipad is incompatible. I'm trying n track(as it's free) but haven't been able to link the Kronos due to wrong usb conection(at the moment).
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geoelectro
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Joined: 14 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm using iMIX pro. It can do a lot more than play back audio files like video, slides, MIDI etc. I'm just using the audio playback right now. Very stable program. I have a 2nd gen iPad pro.

Geo
_________________
Kronos 61 : 3GB RAM 120GB 2nd Drv.
Kronos 2 61
N.I. Komplete 11, Omnisphere 2, VB-3.
HP i7 8GB Win 10
Yamaha P-80 Weighted Keyboard. NanoPad2
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19naia
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 1139

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Kronos setup is iPad over USB audio+midi and an external Drum machine over 5 pin midi cables.
I only use the USB midi from iPad for the most basic global channel syncing.
I literally make sure my apps are set to Kronos Global channel and leave it at that. And any key zoning or MidiFlow settings i make from there, will all go where they need to be. I simply use iPad for add on synths to layer onto Kronos combi's without hitting the Kronos polyphony limit.
I use Garage band to prepare creative audio bytes that i then sample into Kronos, but never as an app that runs with Kronos while i perform.

Then for midi drum and bass tracks, i use both Kronos and the external drum Machine, DR880 over the basic 5 pin midi cables.
Sometimes i get stray changes made to Kronos when i change pages or settings on iPad apps and sometimes i get that when changing pages on the 5 pin midi connected drum machine, but i stick to a regular routine and am able to quickly correct the errant messages before they get out of control.

iPad is the hard one for me to keep up with when changing pages in apps that send out USB midi messages with those changes. So i run all my apps at the same time through “MidiFlow”, which lets me filter midi messages or simply turn off the flow of midi from any of the apps.

So i use USB audio+midi and 5 pin midi at the same time. The 5 pin midi connected device is my midi drum track with midi bass track if needed and can be used as click track while i use Kronos internal drum track. I usually use the external drum machine to drive Kronos internal kits, because the drum machine sounds are a bit outdated but the patterns and pattern sequencing system is the best i can get in that arranger way of working midi patterns into the mix. I can put Kronos patterns into the drum machine and add drum machine fills and intros and endings, and then put drum machine patterns into Kronos.
boss DR880 drum machine saved me a lot of money by saving me from having to buy an arranger for drum tracks with ready made options for various fills, ending and intros. It has its own headphone out, pedal and switch inputs for midis control and also has main L/R outs.

With my setup, i can do what you described at the top of the thread.
I would use the 5 pin midi connected device to do the click track and use the devices headphone output to send the click sound wherever and not have it interfere with Kronos or iPad.
Then at the same time, have iPad connected and doing backing tracks and more.
There are cheaper drum machines that can do the same thing. I use the more expensive Boss DR880 because i need its more extensive capabilities.
But for basic capabilities in the same way, and including isolated click track options, you can pick up a cheap basic Alesis drum machine, even cheaper if used. They are small/compact and tough little devices that can easily tuck into a small hand bag. The extra isolated midi and isolated audio or headphones out option it gives, is worth by itself.
My DR880 has USB midi and 5 pin midi option just like Kronos. Maybe even USB audio, it has digital audio options, and can do more midi foot controllers than Kronos and send the foot control midi messages to Kronos over midi.
Cost an extra $500usd to my iPad and Kronos expense, but opened up so much more Kronos utility for me.

Much of what Kronos can do, does not show itself in Kronos until you get a few external devices to connect to Kronos, and then it shows just how much a space shuttle mission calibre of affair it is, with total integration to mission control outside of the cockpit.
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ronnfigg
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Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 1987
Location: CA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could use the Kronos to do it all. You would need to use Sequencer mode and use stereo wav file backing tracks. Sequencer mode works a bit like Combi mode, so you can still play some parts live. You get 6 audio outputs and could use MIDI if you want to.
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Bob Moog
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ronnfigg
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Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS- Set List mode would facilitate quick and easy access to each song.
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geoelectro
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Joined: 14 Sep 2012
Posts: 965
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can run backing tracks from a Combi. Load in a .wav file, create a program with it and insert it into a Combi. Now you have your backing track and 15 other sound slots. Tick the Priority box for the backing track. Set that program's osc's to HOLD so it will play to the end without holding the key. I usually set the lowest key to trigger that track. You can also use the NanoPad.

Now, I have used this for years in a church setting and on a couple of occasions, the track stopped because of polyphony overload. Even though the priority was checked! That's why I moved the tracks out of the Kronos to the iPad.

Geo
_________________
Kronos 61 : 3GB RAM 120GB 2nd Drv.
Kronos 2 61
N.I. Komplete 11, Omnisphere 2, VB-3.
HP i7 8GB Win 10
Yamaha P-80 Weighted Keyboard. NanoPad2
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19naia
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 1139

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep. Main reason i go with the clutter of external devices.
To escape the polyphony limits of Kronos and extend controller options.
Good thing kronos works well with external devices.
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