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GregC
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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 Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Devnor wrote: | | GregC wrote: |
Roland will quickly fix the V piano scene changes.
Kronos was not perfect, out of the gate, either. |
RD2000 users say their units behave the same way. Seems baked in. |
have a friend with the RD and his has no problem.
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Kronos 88. MODX8
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yeskeys
Full Member
Joined: 05 Nov 2018
Posts: 128
Location: Virginia Beach VA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: | | Devnor wrote: | | GregC wrote: |
Realistically, you can only go so far on digital instruments vs the analog like power and brute audio of the John Lord Marshall { ? } setup |
New crop of guitar modelers help with this. Axe FX, Kemper. HX Stomp is pretty cheap and does the Marshall thing well. Run in parallel with leslie sound. |
yes ! you posted this before. Its on my project list to improve on Kronos FX
by implementing Axe Fx etc. I would like to enjoy a big improvement |
Let me know if you want to buy an AxeFX Ultra...thanks. I haven't tested it as an outboard for Kronos tho...not yet....
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Korg Karma module, Kronos61, SEQUENTIAL PRO3, DSI OB6, Oberheim OB8, XStation25, Yamaha MFC (for Karma Pads), Omnisphere, guitars by Tom Anderson, Gibson, Fender, Ibanez, D'Angelico, Parker, Line6, Guitar Processors by Fractal Audio, Amplification by Mesa, Carvin, w/Celestion V30(!) |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| yeskeys wrote: | | GregC wrote: | | Devnor wrote: | | GregC wrote: |
Realistically, you can only go so far on digital instruments vs the analog like power and brute audio of the John Lord Marshall { ? } setup |
New crop of guitar modelers help with this. Axe FX, Kemper. HX Stomp is pretty cheap and does the Marshall thing well. Run in parallel with leslie sound. |
yes ! you posted this before. Its on my project list to improve on Kronos FX
by implementing Axe Fx etc. I would like to enjoy a big improvement |
Let me know if you want to buy an AxeFX Ultra...thanks. I haven't tested it as an outboard for Kronos tho...not yet.... |
Its $1k, pricey but just the same, Kronos guitars need Fx help. Or something
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Kronos 88. MODX8
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Mike Conway
Approved Merchant
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 2433
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Devnor wrote: | | Mike Conway wrote: | | VariOS anyone? |
That was 16 years ago, Mike. What about OASYS open architecture? |
Possibly the most updated consumer hardware synth of all time. Outside of NED, which also required processor and hardware updates. I can't think of anything close.
The OASYS was updated for 4 years. When I bought that, in 2005, it only had HD-1, AL-1, and CX-3. A few months later, STR-1 was added. For the next 4 years, something was continually added - EXs3 Brass, LAC-1 (PolySix, MS20), the next year, MOD-7, not to mention poly-unison and all the other updates.
| Quote: | | Time to let what happened decades ago..go |
You want more recent? What about the Fantom G? They followed up with a totally different, budget version Fantom FA-06/7/8. How many project non-compatable Fantoms are there going to be? (Meaning that a project, song, multi, samples that can be loaded and worked on in another model.)
I'm a long time Roland user - VS1680, XP50, JP8000,.... and the original Fantom. I do like their gear. I thought hard about the G, but I want them to stick with their flagship , like Korg stuck with the Kronos, for 8 years, so far. I don't want it obsolete, by the next NAMM. I want updates for it.
What was great about a lot of older products was that they honored previous models. I had an SY77, which expanded on my DX7. Then I bought the SY99 because it could do all the 77 could do and more. When Yamaha went SY85 and W5, forsaking FM and PM, I sounded off then, too.
When I bought the original Fantom it used the new SRX card expansions, but still had a JV80 card slot. Everything I did on the XP-50 was possible, and more.
Same with Kronos following the OASYS. I could load all my OASYS sounds and songs into it. Speaking of decades old, my workflow with the Kronos can do everything (and tons more) that I was doing in the 80's and early 90's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wrv8_aQ0Azg
Again, I like the new Fantom. Maybe Roland will give it a ton of updates, but you would be wise to look at past trends. A poster made a point about buying it for what it is today. Damn right. I have that attitude with everything I buy. Even with the OASYS, but I was supremely rewarded with that product. Decades old or not, it is still relevant in my work today. In many ways, it has not been surpassed, even after the beating I have given it.
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| Mike Conway wrote: | [qu
Same with Kronos following the OASYS. I could load all my OASYS sounds and songs into it. Speaking of decades old, my workflow with the Kronos can do everything (and tons more) that I was doing in the 80's and early 90's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wrv8_aQ0Azg
Again, I like the new Fantom. Maybe Roland will give it a ton of updates, but you would be wise to look at past trends. A poster made a point about buying it for what it is today. Damn right. I have that attitude with everything I buy. Even with the OASYS, but I was supremely rewarded with that product. Decades old or not, it is still relevant in my work today. In many ways, it has not been surpassed. |
I like history. But its my preference that ' history ' or the belief it will repeat, should not be a limiting factor.
This Fantom, even hearing some of the 512 scenes, sound more sophisticated than my FA, any SRX's, any 5080 sounds, ec etc.
I Like the fresh approach to programming and the navigation , various controls , recording , its looks/feels 2019, vs 2011 or whatever year worth mentioning.
Plain and simple, Fantom sounds stronger than my Kronos. I have been stuck in my 70's/80's music mindset . Kronos is and has been a tremendous partner for my music production and creativity.
Maybe this is wishful thinking, but I see Fantom as being an important partner in moving my music creativity forward. Thats what its all about for me.
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Kronos 88. MODX8
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FB Music
Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| laandodeman wrote: | | Any word on the hammond/leslie on the Fantom? This is one of my frustrations with the Kronos. It keeps sounding thin and doesn't cut through the mix. |
Play the Kronos through a Neo Ventilator or mini Vent 2 and I think you’ll be amazed at how the CX-3 comes alive! |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| FB Music wrote: | | laandodeman wrote: | | Any word on the hammond/leslie on the Fantom? This is one of my frustrations with the Kronos. It keeps sounding thin and doesn't cut through the mix. |
Play the Kronos through a Neo Ventilator or mini Vent 2 and I think you’ll be amazed at how the CX-3 comes alive! |
Its a popular device for the gigging keyboardist.
we haven't heard from mr lando, but my experience is that the CX-3 records beautifully. The Hammond/Leslie sounds are convincing when I perform -record them in originals. No vent needed in that context.
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Kronos 88. MODX8
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Devnor
Full Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 222
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| Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Maybe Roland will give it a ton of updates, but you would be wise to look at past trends. A poster made a point about buying it for what it is today. |
I bought Fantom with really no reservations about support. Far as I was concerned they delivered on everything they said the Jupiter 80 should be with Rev 2. They’ll didn’t fulfill everyone’s wish list and upgrades ceased shortly after but the machine was good enough and I can work around the rest. Fantastic even. Everything since has been decent to pretty cool ala System 500, System 8, JDXa.
The synth is different enough from supernatural too. The patch names are the same but the potential not yet realized. Everything past the first few dozen tones could use some editing.
All the show stoppers brought up not affecting me. I build up arrangements in Fantom then add my Kronos, JU80 and Voyager. CV/gate drives a Sirin, just because Fantom gives me that flexibility. I was doing this in Logic but workflow in Fantom seems faster, less mouse/keyboard action. I can flow from song building to patch editing to mixing seamlessly. Quickly.
Fantom is keeper and should be an exciting ride.
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Fantom 7, Kronos 2, V Synth GT, Moog Voyager |
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theescapist
Joined: 01 Jul 2011
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| I thought I'd never give up my RD700NX for its piano sounds and action, but the Fantom 8 is making me reconsider... I hope they add the Supernatural pianos like the RD2000 since I am not convinced by the stock v-piano sounds in demos. Would need to try them for myself. |
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jimknopf
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 3374
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| Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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A friend of mine tested the Fantom in a store and was quite unimpressend by the V.Piano patches, claiming that other Fantom pianos sounded better to his surprise. He even asked himself, if the V-Piano is fully implemented, or if it's a cut down version.
Since I use the Italian Grand on the Kronos with some variations, I no longer miss a piano from other keyboards - although I like some of the other ones from Yamaha, Roland, Nord and Kurzweil. I just don't need any of them any more since the Italian Grand. I remember the V-Piano from some good sounding George Duke playing, but have not followed it's development or present status since. From the actual demos, I'm quite underwhelmed as well: it's neither bad nor really outstanding there, for my ears.
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Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5 |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:20 am Post subject: |
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[quote="theescapist"]I thought I'd never give up my RD700NX for its piano sounds and action, but the Fantom 8 is making me reconsider.../quote]
I had the RD700GX, also a beautiful piano key action. I sold it, [ and other boards] to make room for the Kronos 88 [2011].
It will be great to have a familiar key bed friend back like the Fantom key bed.
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Kronos 88. MODX8
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psionic311
Platinum Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2014
Posts: 1046
Location: Orlando, Florida USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| Devnor wrote: | | Mike Conway wrote: | | VariOS anyone? |
That was 16 years ago, Mike. What about OASYS open architecture? Time to let what happened decades ago..go. |
I'm joining this discussion late. Why?
Frankly, I just don't have that much GAS for a Fantom.
Let what happened decades ago go? Seriously?
Someone doesn't know their Kronos well.
There is still tech on the Kronos that is yet to be surpassed:
MOD7 is the best FM tech out there. Even in software. Period.
The Kronos wavesequencer rivals modern wavetable synths. Serum excluded.
Streaming sample *libraries* that are GB sized.
KARMA.
A very flexible and great-sounding FX and routing system. Still beats Fantom, I believe.
Access to multiple premium synth engines that can be chained together (via Audio and other IN).
So the argument of letting the past go is shaky here.
Certain Kronos tech is still firmly in the present, and foreseeable future.
| Quote: |
I spent my first evening with Fantom 7. Sure there's no new cutting edge synthesis onboard and stuff is missing....sampling, SN-A, EPs. Since I own other synths that do this quite well it's not an issue so moving on to strengths. |
This is quite telling.
From what I can gather, Fantoms are missing bread and butter.
My Integra 7 is a large part why I don't have much Fantom GAS.
(V-piano excepted, and no seamless transition forgiven).
In fact, what is the Fantom but a glorified sample + synthesis board?
Sure, you can supplement the missing tech with other tech.
That also applies to the Kronos.
Connect a MIDI controller of your choice, and an iPad, and your Kronos > Fantom.
| Quote: |
Roland nailed sequencer workflow. However you want to work, the tools are mostly there. Record tracks and group them in the clip player. If you need to edit a synth tone, it's just a couple button presses and you're there. The sequence still plays because you didn't need to drop out of combi to perform the edit. Very cool. It handled external gear nicely. First tune had Fantom sequencing all my external gear. Second tune was fantom plus an 8 part Omnisphere multi. So easy to setup. I never opened the manual the whole night. |
This is the area that Roland nailed.
Adding an analog filter is a great move too.
Their greatest achievement is workflow and DAW integration.
But Kronos sequencer mode subsumes all other modes.
Stay in this mode, and you are more than halfway in Fantom "scene" territory.
Supplement this with an iPad and relevant MIDI controllers, and you're more than there.
But that's not the point.
It takes someone at Mike's caliber to truly harness all this ability effortlessly.
For most mere mortals, the Fantom workflow is a winner.
Roland wins in integrating it all into a user-friendly, if limited and expensive way.
For many, that's probably the exact combo that will sell.
Power users are a smaller minority. |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:25 am Post subject: |
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[quote="psionic311"][
Let what happened decades ago go? Seriously?
Someone doesn't know their Kronos well.
There is still tech on the Kronos that is yet to be surpassed:
MOD7 is the best FM tech out there. Even in software. Period.
The Kronos wavesequencer rivals modern wavetable synths. Serum excluded.
Streaming sample *libraries* that are GB sized.
KARMA.
So the argument of letting the past go is shaky here.
Certain Kronos tech is still firmly in the present, and foreseeable future.
This is what is shaky
There has been no high level { Korg level} development of Mod-7, STR-1, The EP engine , AL-1. And Karma. Karma is dead in the water at a high level.
IOW, the high level development is very difficult. Thats my observation after 8 years.
I have made this point many times. I would be happy to pay for high level programming of the above. Haven't heard or seen it
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theescapist
Joined: 01 Jul 2011
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: | | theescapist wrote: | | I thought I'd never give up my RD700NX for its piano sounds and action, but the Fantom 8 is making me reconsider... |
I had the RD700GX, also a beautiful piano key action. I sold it, [ and other boards] to make room for the Kronos 88 [2011].
It will be great to have a familiar key bed friend back like the Fantom key bed. |
No kidding, the PHA-whatever action has the perfect feel to my fingers. Never liked the RD's sounds outside the main piano (thus the Kronos), but the Fantom seems promising. I wouldn't give up my Kronos, at least until I learn it fully 
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:06 am Post subject: |
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[quote="theescapist"][\
Ite Kronos), but the Fantom seems promising. I wouldn't give up my Kronos, at least until I learn it fully [ /quote]
Kronos is a never ending river, maybe an ocean.
I have years of material invested.
I might keep it for life.
I can handle both Kronos + Fantom
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