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Joined: 06 Apr 2002 Posts: 1150 Location: Benton, LA
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:26 pm Post subject: For those considering Genos . . .
I bought one. It is really, really good, finally catching up with Korg in many departments. Nice huge screen, great key touch, tons of styles and voices.
Lots of programmable sliders and buttons...Hey, all the style endings even work right. Great vocal sounds! Amazing guitars. Organ not as good as Korg but certainly usable. Pianos excellent, but that is always subjective.
Vocal processor is good; vocal harmony is still really weak compared to Korg.
After keeping it a month and spending MANY hours setting it up, I have decided the PA4X suits my needs much better. I like the Korg operating system better, and I'm totally familiar with both systems.
The good news is that there are no bad choices these days. My feeling is that Korg is still best for me.
Anyway, I feel qualified to answer any questions comparing the two if anyone is interested. _________________ DonM
One thing that annoys me about all the Yamaha arrangers (PSRs, Tyros) is the "intelligent" chord recognition.
I would love to know if this can be achieved on the Genos - so far I was not able to do it.
This is not about "Simple-fingered" mechanical chord.
I like to play real chords but sometimes just play a single note to get a major or two notes to play a 7th (e.g. Bb+C)
Genos has a so-called AI chords but it is quite mental to play.
Ketron, Casio, Roland, Korg have always had this intelligence.
Could you check it out for me please?
Thanks
Pete _________________ PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
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Joined: 06 Apr 2002 Posts: 1150 Location: Benton, LA
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:15 am Post subject:
I will check it out, but I'm pretty sure I read that it doesn't work like the Korg. Someone else was complaining about the same thing, except on SX900. I always use Fingered mode.
I have watched several of the telecasts at Korg World and even bought some Country Styles from them. Great resource.
I've been a member here so long it feels like another home. Since PA80 days.
I've had PA80, PA800, 900, 1000, PA3X, and several PA4Xs.
But I've also had the Yamahas, Rolands, Technics, and Ketrons too. I still have an EA7 that is quite a value for its low cost. I use it for times when I need two setups and for backup.
Hope I'm around and still in the game when the new Korgs come. Surely should be next year sometime. _________________ DonM
Thanks DonM for your report.
Just by curiosity, can you check please if there is any button for Lock Tempo?
And also if is it possible to edit the Style Tracks Drum Kits like in Pa4X, for example editing the Drum Track to have stronger Kick (Bass Drum).
Joined: 06 Apr 2002 Posts: 1150 Location: Benton, LA
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:21 am Post subject:
BR wrote:
Thanks DonM for your report.
Just by curiosity, can you check please if there is any button for Lock Tempo?
And also if is it possible to edit the Style Tracks Drum Kits like in Pa4X, for example editing the Drum Track to have stronger Kick (Bass Drum).
Thanks
There is no lock tempo button but there is a setting where you can have it locked as long as the style is running. In other words you can change the style and the tempo will stay the same. If you stop the style and start a new one the tempo will be the preset speed of the new style.
I think you can assign a button or touch to determine the status so that would probably achieve the same thing.
I'm sure you can edit the drum kits and create your own. It is easy to change kits even while playing.
Hope this helps. _________________ DonM
Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2539 Location: Netherlands
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:40 am Post subject:
karmathanever wrote:
Hey Don
One thing that annoys me about all the Yamaha arrangers (PSRs, Tyros) is the "intelligent" chord recognition.
I would love to know if this can be achieved on the Genos - so far I was not able to do it.
This is not about "Simple-fingered" mechanical chord.
I like to play real chords but sometimes just play a single note to get a major or two notes to play a 7th (e.g. Bb+C)
Genos has a so-called AI chords but it is quite mental to play.
Ketron, Casio, Roland, Korg have always had this intelligence.
Could you check it out for me please?
Thanks
Pete
I have the korg pa4x and the yamaha genos next to eachother so i can compare them really well.
Chord recognition is easier on the Korg Pa4x, Especially when you play chords (even with both hands) the korg often 'guesses' the right chord based on your playing.
The Yamaha can do this also, there are several recognition modes, but sometimes you need to use some playing tricks to achieve the correct correct. There are a lot of chord playing tricks on the Genos which you can learn and eventually will do them automatically while playing (like for instance playing two octave notes to set the bass to that note, or playing three notes together in a group, etc.)
For me there is no difference anymore while playing any of the two keyboards, i like the korg pa4x chord recognition more because i play a lot of R&B related chords in my songs and the korg recognition is stronger in that area. But i can achieve the same result by using chord inversions on the yamaha genos (so that's a matter of practice)
BR wrote:
Thanks DonM for your report.
Just by curiosity, can you check please if there is any button for Lock Tempo?
And also if is it possible to edit the Style Tracks Drum Kits like in Pa4X, for example editing the Drum Track to have stronger Kick (Bass Drum).
Thanks
Yes, editing styles is much easier (and more limited) on a Genos. For instance in dance tracks i use my own kick drum expansion kits and modify the kick and clap to more modern and more powerful ones in the style creator. It's very easy to do (takes about 10 seconds to change this).
Also the assembly function is very easy to use, which let you mix and match elements between styles in realtime (while you hear the style). The korg pa4x can do this also, but that process is a lot more difficult and more time consuming.
Here's an example where i show a custom created style i created on the Genos through the style creator. This style was created in a few minutes, so although the style creation possibilities are more limited on a genos, it's so easy to use that i use it all the time.
In this example i play a slow blues where i use the new chord looper feature and only default sounds, I created this style in the style creator on the genos:
[
There is no lock tempo button but there is a setting where you can have it locked as long as the style is running.
In other words you can change the style and the tempo will stay the same. If you stop the style and start a new one the tempo will be the preset speed of the new style.
I think you can assign a button or touch to determine the status so that would probably achieve the same thing.
I'm sure you can edit the drum kits and create your own. It is easy to change kits even while playing.
Hope this helps.
@ QuiRobinez,
Thanks for the info and nice video, I like it.
I like your audio recording.
May I ask what software you used or other details?
I am doing some demo recording but my final mp3 volume is always low.
To resolve this problem I tred to increase the Master out put for the final mp3 but the fader goes to Red.
Any suggestion?
Joined: 06 Apr 2002 Posts: 1150 Location: Benton, LA
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:02 pm Post subject:
I repeat that the Genos is a really top-level arranger, by far the best Yamaha has done.
I just find that the PA4X has some controls and functions that I like better, particularly playing in real time. I work four hours five nights a week, and I'm getting old. The semi-weighted keys on the Korg are starting to bother my fingers and wrists. I find the Geno has a lighter touch and I like that, but not enough reason to change at this time.
Genos is boxed up ready for a new home. Like ex-wives, I will miss it sometimes. _________________ DonM
Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 2553 Location: Sweden/Malmoe
Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:07 pm Post subject:
hi Qui, What KB do you think winns on the Sample & Sound Edit, Is there same edit functionality on GENOS as on 4X?
Also what KB is better on live perf!
You got both side by side, If there is a cohice to make, What would you take Y or K _________________ www.globalsound.se
KORG PA 5-X/YAMAHA GENOS 2/YAMAHA A 5000
LIONSTRACK X 76 & GROOVE XR
MEDELI AKX-10
MacbookproM2-Ssd/Logic/Neuman/Kali Audio8/Komplette14SDD/ Apollo Twin/PIONEER XDJ RX 2
LOTS OF SAMPLE SOUNDS!
KorgPaManager V 5
Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2539 Location: Netherlands
Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:36 pm Post subject:
Asena wrote:
hi Qui, What KB do you think winns on the Sample & Sound Edit, Is there same edit functionality on GENOS as on 4X?
Also what KB is better on live perf!
You got both side by side, If there is a cohice to make, What would you take Y or K
there is no comparison, the korg pa4x is much, ..., much better when it comes to editing sounds and possibilities to change things in styles and sounds (non destructive).
I also create sound sets for the genos, there you have very limited options to create your sounds, it's not impossible when you are creative though. What i do is programming my Genos sounds in VST's on my computer and sample those with samplerobot 6 pro and transfer those to the editor program where you create your sound sets for the genos (YEM). Then i create multiple variations of that sound with simple edits like ADSR, basic filters, etc. More is not really possible.
On the pa4x you have a full synthesizer based on rom and ram samples, and it even supports basic wavesequencing. I also created a free sound set for that (name: melliflous sound set)
For live i would prefer the korg pa4x, it sounds more dynamic and it has more sound possibilities.
For just playing covers on your own then i prefer the genos. There are so many song specific styles available and it's just fun to sit after a keyboard and just play those covers.
but as soon as i want a powerhorse keyboard then i return to the pa4x.
So luckely i don't have to choose, both keyboards are great in their own area. But if i would only have to choose one then the pa4x would be my choice because it has more programming features.
Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 2553 Location: Sweden/Malmoe
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:06 pm Post subject:
Thank you so much for replay,
100% with you, I had 3 Genos in 2 years, And in the end returned to my 4X. Becouse it,s more on it.
I hate YAMAHA,s YEM, . it,s toy. _________________ www.globalsound.se
KORG PA 5-X/YAMAHA GENOS 2/YAMAHA A 5000
LIONSTRACK X 76 & GROOVE XR
MEDELI AKX-10
MacbookproM2-Ssd/Logic/Neuman/Kali Audio8/Komplette14SDD/ Apollo Twin/PIONEER XDJ RX 2
LOTS OF SAMPLE SOUNDS!
KorgPaManager V 5
Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2539 Location: Netherlands
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:44 pm Post subject:
Asena wrote:
Thank you so much for replay,
100% with you, I had 3 Genos in 2 years, And in the end returned to my 4X. Becouse it,s more on it.
I hate YAMAHA,s YEM, . it,s toy.
yes, Yem is very limited indeed (it doesn't even support Genos specific features like the Genos FX for instance).
But that doesn't mean that you can't create your own sounds and make them sound good.
here are two examples which were recorded directly live from the Genos with my own Genos Sound Expansions.
Number 1: Piano and pad and lead sounds from my own expansions (which were programmed in YEM)
and number 2 (more pads from my expansion)
These are just two examples i played and recorded live to show what you can do on a Yamaha Genos when you create your own Expansions.
Of course i could do exactly the same on the Korg PA4x but there i can go a lot further, because on the pa4x those sounds can be used with full synthesis features and more oscillators to create even more unique sounds.
Off topic:
Now there is one thing that is a huge difference, nowadays if you create sound sets where you spent hundreds of hours on and you want to sell them then it's needed to protect your sound set (personally i hate this and that's why i give most things free)
But as soon as it's more like a work thing then you need to have the possibility to protect your sound set. The Pa4x can't do this, but the genos can do this very easely. It's very simple to create a copy protected pack in YEM for a specific genos (or tyros 5)model, so that is for sound designers a big plus nowadays.
yamaha has an insane amount of styles and sounds available, korg has a lot less available. It would be wise for the korg pa5x in my opinion to add that copyprotect feature to the pa5x for sound sets and styles. I'm absolutely sure that the availability of sound sets will explode then for that model, since the korg has so much possibilities to create insanely good sounding sounds.
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