Korg Forums

[tunaman]

I’m interested to see how many Kronos users are building their own sounds from scratch? Especially using the AL-1/MOD-7/MS-20EX/PolysixEX engines?

I’ve seen a lot of videos, especially many of the good instructional postings by Dave Champagne and Qui Robinez, and they are helpful towards achieving the topic objectives. One by Dave in particular was useful to help understand his approach, but still didn’t fill in many of the gaps I have currently.

I’m interested in any rules or guidelines on which engine might be most appropriate for which types of sounds. I have a couple of clues, as I’m a pretty old guy who had a MicroMoog and MiniMoog back in the 70’s and early 80’s, and DX7’s in the 90’s (still have three). I’ve had Tritons starting with the LE (2000’s) and including the Extreme, but I never needed to dig into the TE and build from scratch.

Every time I start to try working from scratch and using Dave’s approach, I get sucked into a deep time suck and don’t end up making much progress... there are so many ways to become distracted and head down rabbit holes. Half the time I end up browsing and sampling the default voices to find something remotely close so that I can compare all of the parameters and find the hours fly by without actually making meaningful progress.

I’m now starting down the road of trying to create the voices for Eyes Without a Face, which doesn’t seem to be that difficult at face value. I believe I’ve identified four distinct sounds (at least), and did plenty of research to find that the two main voices were created using the Prophet 5 (perfect, as that is the ‘famous synth’ the AL-1 is based on) and the OB-xa. I started with a blank slot and made no meaningful progress, so I started listening to other programs to see if I could find something close to provide some hints, and next thing I knew I had spent a couple of fruitless hours and was still at ground zero.

How many of you craft your own voices, and what is your approach to selecting the appropriate engine and working through the design?

Any tips you can provide a newbie, or other resources and sites you find helpful?

[Liviou2004]

In my opinnion, you should consider the MOD-7 engine aside others. It's about full FM synthesis and there are trucks of excellent Youtube tuto channels and excellent website to learn FM synthesis.
Just two very good examples :

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqbIk_aESNGiB8gpeJkOYVw/videos

https://www.youtube.com/user/madfameltd/videos

Following these tutos, it's easy to transpose on MOD-7.

Before that, the Kronos Parameter Guide has an excellent MOD-7 tuto at the begining of this part.

-------------

Here is some ideas for other synth method :
https://www.edmprod.com/10-best-sound-design-resources-net-today/

This guy has done a book : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVRW4okTX9M&feature=emb_logo

[tunaman]

I also meant to mention Busch above also, as I’ve read some useful posts he has authored on another forum which have helped with several aspects of the Kronos beast.

Liviou, thank you for your response and for taking the time to post your links. Looks like some very helpful pointers to assist in my journey.

[IAA]

If I writing then I just use a set list of my stock patches. If I’m tracking then I often build AL1 patches, starting from some jumping off points that I’ve made. So I’ve got some Moog leads, strings that kind of stuff, which I then tweak. As you right,y point out, you can end up anywhere if you’re not careful!
I tend not to write mod7 primarily because I’m still new to programming FM.

[Derek Cook]

I mix and match. If there is a library that I like, I will buy it and use it, including tweaking the sounds, but I also program my own sounds from scratch. With the Kronos that has been mainly the AL-1 and C3-X engines. AL-1 is amazing and worth the effort of learning
_________________
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[KK]

Building sounds from scratch in a complex machine like the Kronos is certainly not easy. Of course, it is sometimes necessary when one can't find an existing program close enough as a start and from which it can be modified to fit one's goals. I've created quite a few already from scratch on the Kronos, including some complex ones. You can check my video below to hear a few of them like ELP's Hoedown Moog synth, JMJ's Laser Harp, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5xF3yl5V3o

It's rather pointless to try to explain what to do in less than a book. I personally follow the techniques I've learned and experimented since I started to play several decades ago. You have to first play around for a while with each synth/engine to know what they can and cannot do, even though some have almost no limits. It's also important to define the character of each. For example, a given simple design using a single oscillator won't sound the same in the Polysix, the AL-1 and the MS-20. Those two important things will help you decide which one can be the preferred synth for a given goal.

In short, concentrate on the basics (OFAE). Keep the fancy stuff for after. And remember a big part of it is trial and error. Nobody can build a complex sound in 5 minutes. Do your best, save your work, improve it later. For beginners, start with the Polysix. Then the MS20, HD-1 (since it's also a great synth), STR-1, then the near limitless AL-1 and MOD-7.

[Liviou2004]

Agree with KK : you should get rid of a complete mastering of the Kronos. Many here on the forum say that they go on discovering things after years.

As KK said, there are some engines more easy to approach than others.

From the easiest to the most complex, I would say :

1°) SGX-2
2°) EP-1, CX-3
3°) Polysix EX
4°) HD-1
5°) MS-20 EX
6°) AL-1
7°) STR-1
8°) MOD-7

I put the STR-1 after AL-1 because of the physicalmodelisation concept which I find a bit more complex.

With this in mind, there are two ways : creating new sounds from scratch or modifying existing sounds.

For the first one, it's easy th begin with SGX-2, for example. Moving the parameters, one by one, and hearing what happens.

For the second one, it's good to take an existing sound you do appreciate and make what we could call a retro-design. That is to say, turning all effects (IFX, MFX, TFX) off, its very important to listen to the pure sound in order to understand how it has been made.
And then, look at the different steps, according to the engine used. It will be very easy with SGX-2 up to far more complex with MOD-7, and observe each parameter, move it and hear what happens.

Of course, we suppose we are speaking of a single OSC Program ! If the Program contains 2 OSC, we must study one after the other.

[tunaman]

Thanks all for the additional input... it is appreciated.

Liviou - thanks for listing in order of difficulty. I’ll keep that in mind as I learn and progress.

I’ve done quite a bit of tweaking with existing voices, creating my own combi’s using the stock or modified voices, and also exploring many of the 3rd party patches I’ve located. I’ve also pulled down some DX7 sysex stuff and evaluated that capability (albeit minimally).

I do find it useful walking through many of the stock programs and seeing how they are constructed, and figure at this point most (if not all) of the voices I need can be achieved by tweaking the parameters of the existing collection.

Thanks again to all for the input.

[QuiRobinez]

[IAA]

Qui, it’s great to hear from you again! You’re the dude on the Kronos, your videos really helped me get the most out of this instrument and I’d recommend them in an instant.

[tunaman]

Qui - I’m honored that you chose to respond and provide the input!

And thank you for taking the time to outline your workflow. That is very helpful, and differs from the approach I picked up from one of Dave’s videos where he started with the ADSR characteristics. I’ve tried this approach a couple of times, and while I got the right shape I then found myself boxed in trying to get to the actual sound characteristics. I will try this workflow.

I believe I’ve watched the linked video a while back, but that was before I actually started trying to learn the programming from scratch. I haven’t gone back to it since it was focused on the HD-1, but now I will as I’m sure it will help fill in some of the myriad gaps.

Lastly, thanks a ton for the link as I haven’t stumbled on that one yet.

Great job on all of the instructional videos and many thanks for posting them up!

[CharlesFerraro]

[tunaman]

Charles - thanks for the offer, and no shilling perceived. Creating sounds from scratch is a challenging and time-consuming endeavor which isn’t for many (dare say most?) players and is valuable.

In this case, I suspect I can find enough compatible sounds present to put together a sufficient Combi for starters and tackle the voicings as time permits.