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(Multi) effect modules for Kronos?
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Pandelume



Joined: 01 Mar 2020
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:41 pm    Post subject: (Multi) effect modules for Kronos? Reply with quote

Now the the Kronos is such a powerful machine. I still want to enhance it with some very good effect modules for reverb, delay and other effects. What modules do you guys use for ambient or drone? I am told one needs rather effect gadgets than an additional synth when going for ambient. I have been looking at Boss MD-500 or Big Sky and El Capistan from Strymon, also looking forward to the Microcosm from Hologram Electronics. But would like to know, what Kronos users prefer in this respect.
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Poseidon
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Effects ? They are as much important as the sound engines.
I use BigSky, TimeLine from Strymon, and TC M3000.
I am planning to purchase the Mobius sooooon, and another BigSky.
The BigSky’s reverb tails fade to silence without any degradation ! Marvellous box !
If you get one, prepare to be unseated from your chair when you hear the drones.

When it comes to ambient music, I find Waldorf Blofeld a must too.



Hologram Electronics Microcosm ?

I posted the other day -> http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=121136

I am considering the Hologram for my guitar, but I hate to be forced to pre-order, so ... No decision so far ...
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Liviou2004
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Joined: 20 Feb 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:36 am    Post subject: Re: (Multi) effect modules for Kronos? Reply with quote

Pandelume wrote:
Now the the Kronos is such a powerful machine. I still want to enhance it with some very good effect modules for reverb, delay and other effects. What modules do you guys use for ambient or drone? I am told one needs rather effect gadgets than an additional synth when going for ambient. I have been looking at Boss MD-500 or Big Sky and El Capistan from Strymon, also looking forward to the Microcosm from Hologram Electronics. But would like to know, what Kronos users prefer in this respect.


The Behringer FX2000 3D is a very good unit for about 100$, it adds some long and goog reverbs for this price.
The Zoom MS70 CDR, is very interesting too with its 4 effects algorythm chosen among 137 effects.
Of course, the Eventide Space with its BlackHole algorythm (you can find it as a VST effects).
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Pandelume



Joined: 01 Mar 2020
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe a dumb question, but how can i connect my Kronos2 61 in a proper way to a BigSky or Eventide Space? MIDI also needed? Just own the Kronos, and no other synths or mixer.



Poseidon wrote:
Effects ? They are as much important as the sound engines.
I use BigSky, TimeLine from Strymon, and TC M3000.
I am planning to purchase the Mobius sooooon, and another BigSky.
The BigSky’s reverb tails fade to silence without any degradation ! Marvellous box !
If you get one, prepare to be unseated from your chair when you hear the drones.

When it comes to ambient music, I find Waldorf Blofeld a must too.



Hologram Electronics Microcosm ?

I posted the other day -> http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=121136

I am considering the Hologram for my guitar, but I hate to be forced to pre-order, so ... No decision so far ...
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Pandelume



Joined: 01 Mar 2020
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe a dumb question, but how can i connect my Kronos2 61 in a proper way to a BigSky or Eventide Space? MIDI also needed? Just own the Kronos, and no other synths or mixer.
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geoelectro
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Besides the L/R outputs, there are 4 individual outputs. Pick one for a mono source or 2 for a stereo source and connect them to your external FX unit. Take the FX outputs and connect them to the inputs on the Kronos.

Then, you can assign a sound to the new outputs which will go thru your FX and come back in thru the Kronos inputs.

You may need to configure your inputs in Global. Set levels, pans etc.

Geo
_________________
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Poseidon
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Joined: 08 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pandelume wrote:
Maybe a dumb question, but how can i connect my Kronos2 61 in a proper way to a BigSky or Eventide Space? MIDI also needed? Just own the Kronos, and no other synths or mixer.


If you own Korg Kronos only, there is no "proper" way to directly connect most of pedals, not just BigSky or Eventide.

The BigSky is looking for instrument level and can accept up tp +8dBu in signal level.

By connecting hot signal, you might experience clipping or loss of wet/dry signal. This however will NOT damage the BigSky because is fixed by a power cycle. BigSky is a very smart box, has even own signal meter test.

You would need to expand your studio gear ( it could be costly if you want to preserve unbelievable BigSky’s 115dB S/N ratio ).
or the rack effect is probably the best option for you.
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Pandelume



Joined: 01 Mar 2020
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would not like to use a rack, but what do you mean by expand my gear? Possibly use a mixer or a kind of pre amp to use with a BigSky to achieve this ratio (115dB S/N ratio)? So what's the best way to attach a pedal to the Kronos in general? Thanks.


Poseidon wrote:
Pandelume wrote:
Maybe a dumb question, but how can i connect my Kronos2 61 in a proper way to a BigSky or Eventide Space? MIDI also needed? Just own the Kronos, and no other synths or mixer.


If you own Korg Kronos only, there is no "proper" way to directly connect most of pedals, not just BigSky or Eventide.

The BigSky is looking for instrument level and can accept up tp +8dBu in signal level.

By connecting hot signal, you might experience clipping or loss of wet/dry signal. This however will NOT damage the BigSky because is fixed by a power cycle. BigSky is a very smart box, has even own signal meter test.

You would need to expand your studio gear ( it could be costly if you want to preserve unbelievable BigSky’s 115dB S/N ratio ).
or the rack effect is probably the best option for you.
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voip
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The connection method to the Kronos depends on what you want to do, but is as Geoelectro mentioned.

Connect the Kronos' L & R Audio outs, or Audio outs 1 & 2 or 3 & 4, to the Big Sky's L & R audio ins.

It would probably be best to start with using the L & R outs, which would pass the entire Kronos audio output signal into the Big Sky. The Big Sky Left Out and Right Out signals could then be passed to the PA system, or Front of House desk, which would ideally be a stereo system. There would be no facility for connecting headphones, unless the PA, or a mixer with headphone out, was used. The Big Sky audio outputs could also be passed directly to headphones, via a suitable two mono jack plugs to stereo jack socket adapter cable.

Alternatively, the other output pairs (1 & 2 or 3 & 4) could be used to, say, pass just selected timbre(s) in a Combi through the Big Sky. This would need to be set up on a per Combi basis, depending on what you wanted to do with the signals e.g. to substitute for the Kronos' reverb/chorus/delay effects on all or selected timbres only. In this case, the Big Sky's audio outputs could be fed back into the Kronos Audio Inputs 1 & 2, and routed in the Kronos onto the Audio Bus serving the Kronos' L & R outputs. In this case, the Kronos' Headphone Out could still be used to hear the overall effect.

In addition, connecting the Kronos' MIDI Out to the Big Sky's MIDI In would allow the Kronos to control the Big Sky's parameters, using the Kronos' control surface feature.

There are clearly several options possible.
.
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Poseidon
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Joined: 08 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pandelume wrote:
Would not like to use a rack, but what do you mean by expand my gear? Possibly use a mixer or a kind of pre amp to use with a BigSky to achieve this ratio (115dB S/N ratio)? So what's the best way to attach a pedal to the Kronos in general? Thanks.


Using Strymon BigSky with Kronos directly , you're not gonna be “electrically correct”, there is no impedance and level-matching.
The mixer with aux sends/returns and Reamper are just for that. And they are not cheap if you want to preserve the audio quality which Strymon BigSky is capable.

However, if you really do desire Strymon BigSky, there are many folks that use a BigSky with synths directly.
It’s up to you. I never advice “incorrect methods”, even if they work fine.

If I own Kronos only, and have no plan to expand, I would buy a rack version and DUAL. Kronos with 4 outputs could benefit enormously. That way you stay compact and “correct”
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voip
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Joined: 27 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poseidon wrote:
Pandelume wrote:
Would not like to use a rack, but what do you mean by expand my gear? Possibly use a mixer or a kind of pre amp to use with a BigSky to achieve this ratio (115dB S/N ratio)? So what's the best way to attach a pedal to the Kronos in general? Thanks.


Using Strymon BigSky with Kronos directly , you're not gonna be “electrically correct”, there is no impedance and level-matching.
The mixer with aux sends/returns and Reamper are just for that. And they are not cheap if you want to preserve the audio quality which Strymon BigSky is capable.

However, if you really do desire Strymon BigSky, there are many folks that use a BigSky with synths directly.
It’s up to you. I never advice “incorrect methods”, even if they work fine.

If I own Kronos only, and have no plan to expand, I would buy a rack version and DUAL. Kronos with 4 outputs could benefit enormously. That way you stay compact and “correct”


Impedance matching i.e. like for like, is somewhat less critical in audio equipment, than at radio frequencies. Usually, provided the source inpedance is low and the load imedance is high, or the two are equal, there should be no issues. The Big Sky's inputs are very high impedance (1Megohm), so can be driven by low or high impedance sources (The Kronos line outs, at 175Ohm single ended source impedance, would be classed as relatively low impedance, so would drive the Big Sky inputs without any problems), whilst the Big Sky's outputs are specified as 100Ohm source, so suited to a veriety of inputs, including the Kronos' Audio Inputs. The Big Sky's specified max input level is +8dBu, whilst the kronos output levels are nominally +4dBu (+16dBu max), so overload is unlikely, unless pushing the Kronos to the audio level limit, with the output volume on max.

I agree that some sort of mixer would allow normalisation of the signal levels, but that can also be done using the Kronos' volume control. Big Sky's wide dynamic range and gain staging essentially keeps the output level similar to the input level, allowing it to cope with both instrument level and line level signals.
.
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Poseidon
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

voip wrote:
Impedance matching i.e. like for like, is somewhat less critical in audio equipment, than at radio frequencies. Usually, provided the source inpedance is low and the load imedance is high, or the two are equal, there should be no issues. The Big Sky's inputs are very high impedance (1Megohm), so can be driven by low or high impedance sources (The Kronos line outs, at 175Ohm single ended source impedance, would be classed as relatively low impedance, so would drive the Big Sky inputs without any problems), whilst the Big Sky's outputs are specified as 100Ohm source, so suited to a veriety of inputs, including the Kronos' Audio Inputs. The Big Sky's specified max input level is +8dBu, whilst the kronos output levels are nominally +4dBu (+16dBu max), so overload is unlikely, unless pushing the Kronos to the audio level limit, with the output volume on max.

I agree that some sort of mixer would allow normalisation of the signal levels, but that can also be done using the Kronos' volume control. Big Sky's wide dynamic range and gain staging essentially keeps the output level similar to the input level, allowing it to cope with both instrument level and line level signals.
.


If you play solo, you simply turn the volume down.
However in a mix, with many tracks, you might actually find yourself in a need to increase the input gain with certain BigSky algorithms, in that case you will get clipping.
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Pandelume



Joined: 01 Mar 2020
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now i see why you said costly, a DUAL (+ rack version) is not exactly cheap, but possibly the most neat option. I now found an YT-video, how to connect a Mobius to a Kronos, it looks like the idea of Geoelectro:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiFrgCxLFII

I am now most interested in the Microcosm (Hologram), because it does not only offer reverb, but also granular effects. I am not aware of other pedals or stomp boxes with granular features. But it will ship only late April. In terms of connecting it will likely behave like the BigSky, Eventide and similar.


Poseidon wrote:
Pandelume wrote:
Would not like to use a rack, but what do you mean by expand my gear? Possibly use a mixer or a kind of pre amp to use with a BigSky to achieve this ratio (115dB S/N ratio)? So what's the best way to attach a pedal to the Kronos in general? Thanks.


Using Strymon BigSky with Kronos directly , you're not gonna be “electrically correct”, there is no impedance and level-matching.
The mixer with aux sends/returns and Reamper are just for that. And they are not cheap if you want to preserve the audio quality which Strymon BigSky is capable.

However, if you really do desire Strymon BigSky, there are many folks that use a BigSky with synths directly.
It’s up to you. I never advice “incorrect methods”, even if they work fine.

If I own Kronos only, and have no plan to expand, I would buy a rack version and DUAL. Kronos with 4 outputs could benefit enormously. That way you stay compact and “correct”
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Poseidon
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Joined: 08 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pandelume wrote:
I am now most interested in the Microcosm (Hologram), because it does not only offer reverb, but also granular effects ...


Just to let you know, that I emailed the Microcosm (Hologram) and asked them to reveal the specs in regard to audio input/output. Have not received any answer at all.
While Strymon has replayed next day, when I had some questions, that’s how I found out that BigSky feature a power cycle.

Pandelume wrote:
In terms of connecting it will likely behave like the BigSky, Eventide and similar.


Definitely. But we do not know the specs.
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Poseidon
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pandelume wrote:
... I now found an YT-video, how to connect a Mobius to a Kronos, it looks like the idea of Geoelectro:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiFrgCxLFII

...


Accord. to moogmusic.com -

"Strymon Mobius seems pretty sensitive to input level and most of the time doesn't work well unless I attenuate heavily before the input." (JohnLRice)

Source: https://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?t=24123&__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=6e26ccda04f2deb115acc94852815760ba1d2004-1584153576-0-AfKHWGPLnBk_sIivDSaj_Jr2upuc6LH_-ccUFWTEh0a_tmF9QsAPDwwpGIPFKrBbRMGNvBQ_0h_193xhrioy_1wHkwT9zyFCNfI4XWgrVIXS4U6Fxr_iP4sZc16Yc3tKTwrCzu1fzJuO6X8ReMgtihUzLTq8f0vHFtygy69MQ32L8eBPdcWBEpWzEaURvmRWP-YBognwa-vPhZvpO0Gqfpb39uTh-XTcSlFnkSE66wZhjJF3UhG4eHnDMV2cK1nUAQ7_8xP7MHSohCnnrFg5mIAIw0Ht8unbY_Aiv1B5G4Ku
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