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01/R/W Bank change question

 
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x60hz11



Joined: 17 May 2020
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 7:06 pm    Post subject: 01/R/W Bank change question Reply with quote

Hi all. I am new here and couldn't find a topic for 01 questions so I am putting it here. Please forgive me if that was incorrect.My question is this.. I use SONAR and have a .ins definition file that I found years ago but after brushing off my trusty 01 and began to use it again, I realized when I do a bank change in SONAR, I cannot select patches in PROG mode.
The bank change section of the .ins file looks like this.

[Korg O1R/W]
BankSelMethod=1
Patch[0]=Korg O1R/W Combi Bank A
Patch[1]=Korg O1R/W Combi Bank B

There is no information for Prog banks. I tried adding it in but what would I use for patch numbers? I found info for doing this via sysex but cannot find anything on making this happen via regular bank/patch selection within SONAR.

I've done extensive research on this and for the life of me can't figure it out.

Can someone please tell me how or what to add to the .ins file so I can select patches in the PROG bank as well as the COMBI bank?

THANKS in advance!!
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romney_yw



Joined: 14 May 2018
Posts: 33
Location: Merseyside (formerly Lancashire), UK

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

The MIDI implementation in the 01W seems a little strange. To start with there are only 100 programs (00 - 99) per bank. If you send a program change of 100 or more to Bank A, it automatically overflows into Bank B (and likewise Bank B overflows into Bank A), that is program A100 will actually select B00, and B100 will select A00. You can also switch between internal banks by sending Bank Select 0 (Bank A) or Bank Select 1 (Bank B).

Also note that if the 01W is in Combi mode, the program change messages will select different combi settings. However if you switch manually to Prog mode (using the button on the control panel), the same program change messages will select different prog settings.

When you manually switch between Combi and Prog, the 01W sends a System Exclusive message. I suspect that you can switch the 01W between modes by sending the appropriate SysEx message to the keyboard - but I haven't quite worked that bit out yet.....

As far as the .ins is concerned, I think you may have to define two different instruments [01W Combi] and [01W Prog] - each containing the relevant patch names (combi or prog respectively). Then you'll have to choose the appropriate "instrument" in SONAR depending on what you are trying to achieve - and make sure the keyboard is set correctly too, either by manually selecting the mode on the panel buttons, or manually sending a SysEx message from SONAR (once we've worked out how to achieve that!)....

It's quite a few years since I dabbled with any of this, so I'll need to spend some time trying to refresh my memory. But hopefully this information will point you in the right direction, and enable you to experiment with the settings for yourself.

I'll post some more information as soon as I have anything useful to add, but meanwhile good luck! I hope you can make some further progress.

Best wishes.....
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x60hz11



Joined: 17 May 2020
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you so much romney for your thoughts on this. The thought of defining two separate instruments (Comb & Prog) crossed my mind too. I just wished I knew how to send that sysex to the 01 once that instrument is selected. I believe in order to send a sysex message, it has to be sent in a running sequence as an event unless I'm wrong. It would be great if SONAR could send that event as soon as I selected let's say the O1 Prog Mode and boom, the unit would go into that mode. In short, insert a sysex message into an .ins file.
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romney_yw



Joined: 14 May 2018
Posts: 33
Location: Merseyside (formerly Lancashire), UK

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still investigating this when I have a few moments to spare, but I'm afraid that so far, I've not made a lot of progress....

I've tried to find ways to set my 01W so that the global MIDI channel cannot be changed as you have described, but so far I have failed to recreate that situation. If I highlight the MIDI channel field on Global Page 0, any of the data entry methods results in an immediate change to the channel number - as you would normally expect.

However, I have discovered that if I change my MIDI channel to any value other than 01, the Combinations stop producing any sound. At first, I thought that this was a fault, but I am beginning to believe that this is normal behaviour. In Edit Combi Page 0, each program (timbre) within the Combi has its own MIDI channel - and by default they are all set to 01 (which is usually displayed as 01G when the global MIDI channel is set to 01). If I change the global MIDI channel (say to 02), the settings in the Combi all remain at 01 - but lose the G because that's no longer the global channel. As stated above, none of the timbres now produce any sound. If I then change the individual program/timbre channel settings to 02 (displayed as 02G because of the new global setting) the sound from each timbre is restored.

It seems therefore that under normal circumstances, Combi settings only work if the individual timbres are set to the global MIDI channel (I've just found a note under Combination Mode, on page 84 of my manual, which confirms this behaviour). So if you change the global MIDI channel, all the Combis will have to be edited to change the individual channel settings of each timbre to use whatever new value was chosen for the global channel. 200 Combi settings and 8 timbres per setting is a lot of editing. This is not particularly user friendly!! Rolling Eyes

However, this does allow for some clever sophistication when controlling the 01W from an external source, such as SONAR. I'll leave trying to describe this for another post, but it is affected by the version of the OS ROM chips installed in the instrument. Do you know what version is installed in yours? If you hold down the RESET key while you switch the keyboard on, the version number and date are displayed underneath the word "Korg" at the left side of the startup screen - for about 2 seconds, so watch carefully or you'll miss it. Shocked

I'll continue investigating when I can - I'm now very intrigued by the problem, and the outcome will affect how I set up my 01W for use with my much newer PA700. So as well as (hopefully) being helpful, I'm learning something at the same time. Very Happy

Hope this is (still) useful..... Cool
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x60hz11



Joined: 17 May 2020
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Romney. Sorry I gave you this quest!! Now that you mention it, I do remember from when I used to use the unit on a regular basis back in the 90s, something about that. Seemingly, Combis, responded to whatever the global channel was set for but used channels 1-4, whereas PROG's responded to any channel 5 or greater or something like that.

I do really appreciate the time you spent on this, but I'll probably just end up printing whatever patch I like then move onto to a different one.

Trying to mix 90s technology with today's sucks!! Mad
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romney_yw



Joined: 14 May 2018
Posts: 33
Location: Merseyside (formerly Lancashire), UK

PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No need to be sorry at all! I'm quite enjoying the challenge of working out what is happening - particularly because it's also useful for what I eventually want to achieve between my 01W and my PA700. I've already realised that what I was planning to do isn't actually going to work.....

Some of what I posted here is probably actually more relevant to the other thread in this forum about changing the global MIDI channel number. It was a bit late at night when I was posting, and from my point of view, the two issues are quite closely related. Apologies for any confusion caused.

A little bit of further progress to report. With a "proper" Edirol/Roland UM-2 MIDI interface, I have captured the SysEx messages transmitted by the 01/W when Combi and Prog are selected respectively, and saved these to SysEx files using MIDI-OX. Furthermore, I have used these files to send the SysEx from MIDI-OX to the 01/W and successfully switched the keyboard to Combi or Prog as required. This is a major step forward! I'll now look at how to send the necessary SysEx messages from SONAR to select the required keyboard mode.....

I feel there will always be some limitations in using the 01/W in this fashion, but it is probably the simplest solution to set up. From what I have read, I think an alternative approach is to leave the keyboard in Combi mode, but select the required programs for each of the 8 individual timbres by using Program Change commands in separate SONAR channels. I haven't fully worked this out as yet, and it will take quite a bit of setting up to make it work, but when done, I think it will give a straightforward and quite sophisticated way to control the 01/W from a DAW like SONAR, but will be less useful when playing the instrument live from the keyboard.

I think this approach may require the latest version #62 of the OS in order to work correctly. I've currently got V#35 installed, but the necessary upgrade ROMs are in the post. If you haven't got the latest version in your keyboard, the upgrade is available on eBay, but be careful because the prices vary widely..... (but maybe wait a little until I've done some more investigation before spending any money on this?)

I've also got a "cheap Chinese" MIDI interface. This transmits note on/note off messages OK, and seems to handle Program Change messages as well. However, as widely reported elsewhere, the cheap interface is unable to handle SysEx messages with any reliability. I'm not sure what interface you are using, but if you want to take the approach of sending SysEx to set the keyboard mode, the cheaper interfaces probably won't work. However, the cheaper interface might be sufficient for the alternative approach mentioned above, which once set up, should only need Program Change messages to select the required sounds from the 01/W.

I'm also about to attempt replacement of my display backlight as the original has now become very dim. This is a relatively straightforward process, but involves completely dismantling the keyboard to get at the display. Wish me luck!

Watch this space.....

PS: I've just had a thought about using non-standard Bank Select to switch the 01/W between Combi and Prog. This is already a rather long post, so I'll investigate further and make a separate post (or even a new thread) if I think it can be achieved.

Best wishes, Romney
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romney_yw



Joined: 14 May 2018
Posts: 33
Location: Merseyside (formerly Lancashire), UK

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Progress!

1) I have successfully changed the backlight in my 01/W. Took about 30 minutes to actually fit the new EL panel, but about 4 hours to dismantle the keyboard - almost completely - to get at the display board, and then about another 2 hours or so to put it all back together again. Amazingly everything still seems to work as it should, and I can now read the screen without squinting at it diagonally with a torch.... Result!

2) Using both SONAR X3 and the newer free Cakewalk by Bandlab, I have successfully captured the MIDI SysEx messages which the 01/W sends when you press the mode select buttons on the panel. I've saved these into SysEx "banks" in Sonar/CW and I can select the required operating mode of the 01/W by sending the appropriate SysEx message from S/CW.

3) If you set the SysEx bank for Prog to 'Auto', S/CW will send that message automatically when you open the project file - so you can easily configure the 01/W for Prog (instead of the default Combi which it normally assumes on power up). You will probably get an warning message from S/CW that it is trying to send SysEx to the keyboard (which could do harm if it's not the SysEx you are expecting), but you can acknowledge the message, and also choose not to have it displayed again if you so require. (It's probably obvious, but make sure that the 01/W is switched on before you open the project file in S/CW!!)

4) You can also insert a Meta event into a track in S/CW which will send one of the saved SysEx banks to the keyboard whenever you want. Don't forget though, that this will switch mode for all tracks - you can't operate the 01/W in both Combi mode and Prog mode at the same time. (But more on this in another post when I've had time to investigate further.... Very Happy )

5) Rather surprisingly, it seems you can set up your .INS file with Prog banks as Patches 2 and 3. I don't really understand why this works (and it may not always work as expected - for example if you've got PCM cards installed in the expansion slots). You'll also get unexpected results if you try to select Prog sounds when the 01/W is actually in Combi mode or vice versa - so you'll have to remember to make sure that the 01/W is in the mode you require before trying to select the prog or combi settings (again more on this in another post...) It's actually quite predictable - if you select Combi A08 in SONAR when the 01/W is in Prog mode, you'll get Prog A08 - which probably isn't what you expected!

So your .INS file ends up like this

Code:
[Korg 01R/W]
BankSelMethod=1
Patch[0]=Korg 01/W Combi Bank A
Patch[1]=Korg 01/W Combi Bank B
Patch[2]=Korg 01/W Prog Bank A
Patch[3]=Korg 01/W Prog Bank B


(provided that the banks named are defined elsewhere in the .INS of course!)

I need to do some more work on this, and my current .INS appears to have some errors in it - or maybe it wasn't set up for the factory default Combis & Progs. I'll be happy to send a copy of my .INS file once it is fixed - if that would be useful?

That's about it for now. Again I hope this is helpful - let me know if you need more detailed instructions on the procedures I've mentioned. I'll post yet more info (or maybe start a new thread) when I've got more progress to report.

Best wishes, Romney

PS: I believe the keyboard is an 01/W (that's a zero, not a capital O). Please don't let my zeros cause any confusion with your O's.... Cool
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