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Seems analogue hype is over

 
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:16 pm    Post subject: Seems analogue hype is over Reply with quote

When i look at the latest best selling keyboards, Wavestate, Hydrasynth, jupiter X, waldorf Iridium and Kyra. I think its save to conclude that The analogue hype is over..

Seems like everyone is having much more fun with their wavestate thne any analogue released in the last decade?
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megamarkd
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:17 am    Post subject: Re: Seems analogue hype is over Reply with quote

Bachus wrote:
When i look at the latest best selling keyboards, Wavestate, Hydrasynth, jupiter X, waldorf Iridium and Kyra. I think its save to conclude that The analogue hype is over..

Seems like everyone is having much more fun with their wavestate thne any analogue released in the last decade?


Not completely. You forget EURORACK!!!!!! Cool
That said, I have only actually one analogue oscillator module and am busy making hybrid synths in my enclosures. Analogue filters out the wahzoo!

Also, Roland and Yamaha never did join in with the rest with making analogues again, you can't really count the all digital Jupiter X as a move by Roland back to digital.

Analogue isn't "over" as such, more it is the second dawn of the hybrid. The Hydrasynth is one, as is the Pro3. Novation are going hard on their line of hybrids which started with the Peak and even the Iridium is a descendant of Waldorf's super hybrid, the Quantum. Digital everything does make things very cheap, but there will always be a call for analogues in there. A combination of them definitely creates sounds that please so I couldn't imagine the synth world is going back the 90's any time soon.

The year is half done really, Dave Smith has promised something new 3rd quarter and I have to wonder what someone like Tatsuya Takahashi is going to do with Max Rest. I can't imagine a team like that just running a distributions company.....
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Narioso
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Joined: 15 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it's digital hype now, and only Wavestate and Argon8 can be considered really affordable for anybody.

About Wavestate I don't think it sounds that good, you have to be careful with not transposing anything. Those algorithms are not the best.

Also very unclear what of source waveforms actually have a proper map if to even use, and avoid transpose of pitch. I would like to see that marked up clearly so you know what you are in for.

I wrote in Wavestate forum about mistake I did looking through all multisamples that were playable sounds - and just by having +1 on transpose made those sound horrible in the range keyboard is. I just happended to have a program loaded that had +1 on, and did not think about it.

So not even sure I will use it, but might sell it off. My ears are very sensitive to strain and quickly fatigue when I hear that not so lush sound. I might dive into DeepMind again to do those evolving pads I was looking for.

I did not hear anything about Iridium that made me want it, sounded digital. And a guy and KVR had one for 3 weeks and just confirmed demos I saw/heard. And puke over menu diving.

Kyra I heard really nice demos and stuff(the one made at thomann) - but not preview of overwrite position so nothing I will make sounds with. So bringing nothing to the table. And sound were really demoed with huge reverb and cover much or core sound, IMO. So still have to hear core sound.

I cannot say Jupiter X sound bad, but think Roland are just repeating themselves. Did they even do anything worth having the last 40 years - they still live on old merits, kind of. If they, or Behringer really come through and do a remake of Jupiter 8, not these digital emulations, I would really look into that.

But these above, $2500 range or so, I don't consider affordable for anybody. If really bringing what you want, you get it, but not just as addon.

Looked at Argon8 and was very into getting one, but over and over demos showed effects and stuff, not the core sound would be worth having. And at NAMM he mostly talked about effects. But it could all be not so skilled people playing it and demoing it. But got Wavestate right then, so kind of fell down the list.

I worship Prologue for the sound. So really curious what Dave Smith have in mind at end of year. If anything polyphonic I might go for it(4 voices is enough to color a bit). Monosynths he did too many. What is the significance of Pro3, as an example. Sounding lovely and all, but compared to product line, what does it bring? Just adding more mono synths to the product line.

So yes, the analogue hype continues for me....digital has to be drowned in reverb to even listen to, for too much of those mentioned. Nordlead is exception to this. No effects onboard on NL2X, so they focus on the sound - not how to cover the sound. And working at 96k internally not audible aliasing.

But exploration of Wavestate continues a bit more, to see which multisamples really are carefully mapped, to give the nicest possible sound on every pitch. You simply cannot transpose as complex waveform as strings and make it sound right in realtime. All harmonics must be handled like in pitch correcting plugs like Waves Tune or Celemony Melodyne or it put strain on ears. You cannot do that realtime, that must be done on each pitch and then mapped for every pitch. But it's not marked to easily find which ones are mapped. Best is if recorded at every pitch, but don't really think realistic in this price range.
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Narioso wrote:
So it's digital hype now, and only Wavestate and Argon8 can be considered really affordable for anybody.

About Wavestate I don't think it sounds that good, you have to be careful with not transposing anything. Those algorithms are not the best.

Also very unclear what of source waveforms actually have a proper map if to even use, and avoid transpose of pitch. I would like to see that marked up clearly so you know what you are in for.

I wrote in Wavestate forum about mistake I did looking through all multisamples that were playable sounds - and just by having +1 on transpose made those sound horrible in the range keyboard is. I just happended to have a program loaded that had +1 on, and did not think about it.

So not even sure I will use it, but might sell it off. My ears are very sensitive to strain and quickly fatigue when I hear that not so lush sound. I might dive into DeepMind again to do those evolving pads I was looking for.

I did not hear anything about Iridium that made me want it, sounded digital. And a guy and KVR had one for 3 weeks and just confirmed demos I saw/heard. And puke over menu diving.

Kyra I heard really nice demos and stuff(the one made at thomann) - but not preview of overwrite position so nothing I will make sounds with. So bringing nothing to the table. And sound were really demoed with huge reverb and cover much or core sound, IMO. So still have to hear core sound.

I cannot say Jupiter X sound bad, but think Roland are just repeating themselves. Did they even do anything worth having the last 40 years - they still live on old merits, kind of. If they, or Behringer really come through and do a remake of Jupiter 8, not these digital emulations, I would really look into that.

But these above, $2500 range or so, I don't consider affordable for anybody. If really bringing what you want, you get it, but not just as addon.

Looked at Argon8 and was very into getting one, but over and over demos showed effects and stuff, not the core sound would be worth having. And at NAMM he mostly talked about effects. But it could all be not so skilled people playing it and demoing it. But got Wavestate right then, so kind of fell down the list.

I worship Prologue for the sound. So really curious what Dave Smith have in mind at end of year. If anything polyphonic I might go for it(4 voices is enough to color a bit). Monosynths he did too many. What is the significance of Pro3, as an example. Sounding lovely and all, but compared to product line, what does it bring? Just adding more mono synths to the product line.

So yes, the analogue hype continues for me....digital has to be drowned in reverb to even listen to, for too much of those mentioned. Nordlead is exception to this. No effects onboard on NL2X, so they focus on the sound - not how to cover the sound. And working at 96k internally not audible aliasing.

But exploration of Wavestate continues a bit more, to see which multisamples really are carefully mapped, to give the nicest possible sound on every pitch. You simply cannot transpose as complex waveform as strings and make it sound right in realtime. All harmonics must be handled like in pitch correcting plugs like Waves Tune or Celemony Melodyne or it put strain on ears. You cannot do that realtime, that must be done on each pitch and then mapped for every pitch. But it's not marked to easily find which ones are mapped. Best is if recorded at every pitch, but don't really think realistic in this price range.



Dave smith is clearly moving more and more in the direction of hybrid with its main prophet 12 and prophet X...

I guess even Dave smith will follow the pack, or lead the pack..

Digital oscialtors (VA, wavetable, sample, FM, and what more) and shaper section... then being able to go troough an analogue Filter section, but also having a digital filter option if you want more polyphony, probably even on aan oscilator by oscilator choice.. an then back into a digital effects chian...

I wouldn’t even be surpirised if he would join ASM in their efforts to finally bring back the poly aftertouch and ribbons ...

No matter what he does, it will have impact on the buiseness... i think Dave has been an advocate of hybrid synths for quite some time now.. digital oscilators if done right have the same quallity as Analogue, but offer a huge flexibility..
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Narioso
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Joined: 15 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bachus wrote:
digital oscilators if done right have the same quallity as Analogue, but offer a huge flexibility..


Agree fully, multi engine in prologue is good example of that. Really good move how Korg open up flexibility to us.

There was something like this in Roland JD-Xa as well, an analog engine that could be combined with digital stuff, with a lot from Integra in compatibility. Still a little keen to explore that. I saw an ad on second hand one, and a bit curious, but it had issues with lights on knobs that went dead and such. Among Roland stuff JD-Xa is the one I would look into further, possibly System-8 which would be swell if getting more ability to store more than 64 patches and recall with the backup feature to usb.

KingKorg was ambituous, but not quite there - not in sound and not in workflow.

But overall I like what Korg offer us.

And if finding at least 20-30 patches, as done to liking, I will be all good with Wavestate too. Not every sound need to produce the best you heard. It is a unique unit in so many ways.

I think it was CopInd Kinetic Orhestra wavesequences I started looking at, that really sounded horrible and harsch - and pitch lane had entries doing +24, +19 and +12 and such and coins start to drop what makes things worse. This is pitching up 2 octaves, you cannot expect anything from that original sample being good.

And then evaluating the whole lot of multisamples finding I had +1 octave on all - the rest of the coins drop. One has to keep pad type of playable sound close to original. Short percussive is different, hihats and many such short samples have a lot of harsch components in them.

So having settings off I did Wavestate injustice, kind of.
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