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record styles in to a DAW
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jpires
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Joined: 30 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, what i am trying to do is select a style on Pa4x hit start and record into Cakewalk by bandLab. so far when i start record in a DAW. only my right hand is recording when i lead i can see midi recording, but on my left hand playing chords nothing records. i didn't touch any of the settings on the PA4x.
JP
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Sam CA
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpires wrote:
Well, what i am trying to do is select a style on Pa4x hit start and record into Cakewalk by bandLab. so far when i start record in a DAW. only my right hand is recording when i lead i can see midi recording, but on my left hand playing chords nothing records. i didn't touch any of the settings on the PA4x.
JP


So you do NOT want to record a Style then. You just want to record your Style Mode performance (Chord progression, melodies...) into a DAW in real time... and capture it as midi.

I wrote this earlier:

" I think you need to go to Global, and then under MIDI-OUT set your 9-16 tracks to Style 9-16. If I remember correctly, the default setting is set to Sequencer tracks."

Did you look into that at all? If your keyboard is NOT transmitting midi data on the same channels that Bandlab is expecting, then of course you won't receive any midi.
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:05 pm    Post subject: Record styles in to a DAW Reply with quote

Korghelper wrote:
.. I still think there's some confusing advice on this thread. We seem to be offering advice on how to do two completely different tasks...
... how to play a SONG on the arranger ... how to transfer a STYLE into a DAW for editing and then transfer back ... how to create a STYLE inside the DAW and then transfer to the arranger ...


I do not think there is something confusing, because the first two different possibilities on how to use Pa4x style as input for a DAW both were described in detail to be able to distinguish them from each other (style played on Pa4x to be recorded in DAW as SMF or using SMF from a Pa4x-export for transfer back).

Also if someone do not believe - same editing of a Pa4x style with a DAW as you can do with Pa-arranger CAN NOT BE DONE.

It is not possible to create a style inside the DAW to be transferred to arranger, at least the result is hardly usable. That is because missing parameters of DAW only are generated and automatically recorded with built-in style record software of the Pa4x (system-typical properties of a Pa-style).

You do not get parameters necessary for the styleplayer that is recorded with a DAW (no strummings, arpeggios like on virtual guitar or fretboard, no NTT-tables, no Key/Chord parameters that works in different manner for style elements, no chord types that are inserted by using velocity values or chord type/-progressions are inserted by note events / keys and also parameters for lowest/highest strings, strumming types, capotaster, arpeggios, powerchords, rx noises and chord shapes, not NTT-tables etc.)

Parameters in Pa-Styles exclusively created by recordings in a DAW are missing and do not allow a sensible use of a Pa-Style.
*
jpires wrote:
.. what i am trying to do is select a style on Pa4x hit start and record into Cakewalk by bandLab. so far when i start record in a DAW. only my right hand is recording when i lead i can see midi recording, but on my left hand playing chords nothing records. ...


That is a simple MIDI application - with Pa4x set all parts/tracks of style and all realtime parts/tracks (Upper and Lower) to Both or Ext to guarantee messages and sounds are routed to MIDI-Out of Pa4x.

With DAW record that messages - but result is not a Pa4x-style but a performance of MIDI events, generated by realtime (Upper and Lower of Pa4x) and background (Style, chord recognition ..) tracks of Pa4x.
*
How to realize recording of realtime and background tracks:
MIDI messages and sounds from tracks of your Pa4x that you want to transmit and travel across the classic MIDI interface or the USB port to your DAW has to be designed to channels in MIDI-Out. These tracks of Pa4x you want to route to MIDI-Out are set to "Ext" or "Both" in track control.

Set all parts/tracks of style and all realtime parts/tracks (Upper and Lower) to Both or Ext to guarantee messages and sounds are routed to MIDI-Out auf Pa4x.

Now try to configure the MIDI channels. Pa4x is providing MIDI presets that automatically will configure the MIDI parameters according to your needs. As none of that MIDI presets is suitable for both realtime and background tracks, it is necessary to configure manually.

And - of course - your DAW (only) will record MIDI data on same channels that you are transmitting with Pa4x.

PS: What can be done with such a result recorded via DAW? Same much better and easier you get using built-in-Sequenzer with Quick Record - resulting in a SMF to be further processed according to personal taste with a DAW like Cakewalk!
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- siebenhirter, austria -

Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
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Sam CA
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is crazy!!! Shocked
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jpires
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes Sam, that is exactly what i want to do.
Jp
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Sam CA
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpires wrote:
yes Sam, that is exactly what i want to do.
Jp


If that's all you want to do, just try this. Again, it's been a while since I've looked at that page, and I'm not near the keyboard to check.

Go to that Midi-out tab under Global and see what your channel assignment for tracks 9-16 is. I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly, there's an option for each track to be assigned to Style track 9-16. For example, you would assign track/channel 9 to Style Track 9 and so on.

Then the keyboard should be transmitting the style tracks through MIDI-OUT. Does this style use 'Guitar Mode'?
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korg1
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course you can write everything using daw,as long as you know the controllers.
You can write guitar mode tracks as well,
there is a lot of work to do on keyboard itself too,while building a new style,
if this is what you wanna do.

If you just want to play on keyboard and record everything in daw,
then first go to global settings-->midi--->midi in channel and midi out channel tabs--->set each channel properly (e.x channel 1= upper 1,ch2=upper2,ch3=upper3,ch4=lower,ch5=pad1,ch6=pad2,ch7=pad3,ch8=pad4,ch9=bass,ch10=drums,ch11=perc,ch12=acc1......)

Then use input transformer in cubase or nuendo to set the channels for multitrack recording.
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Sam CA
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

korg1 wrote:
Of course you can write everything using daw,as long as you know the controllers.
You can write guitar mode tracks as well,....


Absolutely! I've made hundreds of Styles using a DAW. Of course a DAW session itself is not a Style, but it's ONE click away from becoming one!!! The biggest chunk of a style IS standard midi stuff. It's like you write lengthy posts saying a DAW session is NOT a song, because if you burn that folder into a DVD, your dvd player won't recognize the format and won't play it! So weird!!!
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Korghelper
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To a hammer, everything looks like a nail!

I think that it’s important before you go off on tangents about how to create styles using DAW’s, you need to find out if the thread is actually about that. It seems abundantly clear that the OP was only asking about how to record himself playing with a style into a DAW.

It’s rather easy to end up muddying the water going off on a similar sounding but ultimately irrelevant tangent about style creation. Perhaps another thread is more appropriate?
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jpires
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:09 pm    Post subject: record styles in to a DAW Reply with quote

Hello
Thanks for all the good advice.
Sam, your instructions did work like a charm.
like you say under midi out i set as follow:
CH 9 Bass
Ch 10 Drums
Ch 11 ACC1
Ch 12 ACC 2
Ch 13 ACC 3 and so on

Thanks again
Jpires
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Sam CA
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice! Glad to be of help. Smile
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Korghelper
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of DAW's will also split a single multichannel track into its component MIDI channels after the fact. It's worth looking into whether it's quicker to just enable one track to record ALL MIDI channels, then separate it all out later when you get a good take.

This is also handy for situations like alternate takes, or redoing just one part of a song, etc.. Instead of your DAW's screen filled up to the brim with individual channels of each take, you can simply have the one track which is easy to cut up, move about, mute and solo etc. without having to do that to multiple tracks.

I always found that was the most convenient way of doing it if I didn't use the built in recorder and transfer the SMF afterwards (I still recommend that, though for the best capture!).
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jpires
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:10 pm    Post subject: record styles in to a DAW Reply with quote

Korghelper
I use Cakewalk by BandLab which allow me to record one midi track with all: Kik, Snare, HH toms etc. and process RUN CAL to separate all the instruments to they own mid track .
Jpires
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Korghelper
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That’s if you need your entire drum kit separated out into individual instruments... Unless separating out to other VSTi’s for sound substitution, on the whole it’s easier (especially on the screen real estate) to keep the kit in just one track. You can still edit each drum separately by just selecting that one note to edit, so you can adjust velocities, change swing values, etc. on say just the hi hats etc.. But if you use a whole track for each sound in the kit, a) it’s a PITA to move around quickly within the kit to edit different sounds, and b) it’s tough to visualize how each sound relates to the others if you can’t see them.

I was thinking more along the lines of simply separating each MIDI channel out to its own track. Maybe if there’s a CAL routine to create new tracks if the sound changes (for channels that have different sounds in different variations etc.) that might be handy, though. I’ve not used Cakewalk, so can’t help there...

I still think it’s worthwhile doing a test recording using the DAW to capture everything, and an identical one using the built-in MIDI Recorder and compare the two for how accurately things get recorded. In my previous experience, throwing an entire style plus your solo down the MIDI or USB cable to a DAW that is being clocked by the arranger tends to lead to tiny timing errors (one or two ticks max) which, although you may not hear them, can make doing cuts at bar boundaries a bit of a problem if all the events supposed to be on the ‘one’ might be a hair late.

I never had that problem with things recorded to an internal sequencer and then transferred. Your mileage might vary, but it’s worth testing to see what kind of accuracy you are getting, clocking one system with the other.
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