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KORG KRONOS or Waiting???
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entonio



Joined: 19 Sep 2020
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was going to say that makes a lot of sense, until I thought:
- that no Motif is going to be released, the Motif has been replaced by the Montage, and that was some time ago but not that much, so by the coordination logic you present it's Korg's time now, before a new Yamaha.
- that I find no evidence of such coordination in the past; if anything, each company seems oblivious to what the others are doing and how they're doing it.

Of course, betting that Korg hasn't anything coming up is always safer. There are many more years in which a flagship isn't released than years in which one is.
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kday
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

entonio wrote:
I was going to say that makes a lot of sense, until I thought:
- that no Motif is going to be released, the Motif has been replaced by the Montage, and that was some time ago but not that much, so by the coordination logic you present it's Korg's time now, before a new Yamaha.
- that I find no evidence of such coordination in the past; if anything, each company seems oblivious to what the others are doing and how they're doing it.

Of course, betting that Korg hasn't anything coming up is always safer. There are many more years in which a flagship isn't released than years in which one is.


Montage is not a workstation. It's only a synthesizer with an added late feature. Motif is Yamaha's Workstation line.

Yamaha Motif workstation is their biggest selling keyboard.

So, I don't think Yamaha would release another lower selling Montage or MODX synthesizer next as their next flagship keyboard because that would be a failure because they already released two. People aren't buying synthesizers like they buy Workstation keyboards. Yamaha don't have a choice but to release a full fledged Workstation with sampling, sequencer, rom samples, etc. Otherwise they'll continue to get ran over by Korg Kronos and Roland Fantom Workstations if their next flagship is just a basic synth.
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entonio



Joined: 19 Sep 2020
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While all of that is true, the fact is that the Motif line ended in 2016 and in Yamahaland they avoid distinguishing between workstations and synthesisers. Maybe they're just moving away from the 'flagship workstation' market and are happy to cover it with the MoxF. That's been their approach for the last few years and if it isn't working commercially they're more likely to blame other factors rather than changing course.

The Alesis Fusion was dirt inexpensive and got canned. I'm not sure people ate that interested in workstations, and I don't think it's just the fault of DAWs.
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kday
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

entonio wrote:
While all of that is true, the fact is that the Motif line ended in 2016 and in Yamahaland they avoid distinguishing between workstations and synthesisers. Maybe they're just moving away from the 'flagship workstation' market and are happy to cover it with the MoxF. That's been their approach for the last few years and if it isn't working commercially they're more likely to blame other factors rather than changing course.

The Alesis Fusion was dirt inexpensive and got canned. I'm not sure people ate that interested in workstations, and I don't think it's just the fault of DAWs.


I think the big three know that Workstations are their biggest sellers. Korg has been on top ever since they released the Kronos Workstation. Reason: because it was a full fledged workstation with sound engines and sampling. Plus their was no workstation competition. Montage didn't sell like their previous workstations but probably did well enough for a synthesizer. MODX because of the low price is selling better. Alesis Fusion was canned because they bungled their concept and sold a 21st Century Workstation concept at $3000 with a Kmart lower $300 Casio quality key-bed workmanship. I worked for Alesis and on the Fusion at that time. They gave me a Fusion in which i still have, and the unit I received developed faulty rotary volume controls which creates static in the volume, within a year of receiving the unit. This on a $3000 dollar Workstation, plus the 88 key-bed was also defective, and department store quality. There were lots and lots of complaints. That's the reason the Fusion didn't catch on, because it was way too expensive with shoddy workmanship quality. If Yamaha don't make a Motif XF successor then they don't have anything new to release. Korg can expand on the Kronos line and still sell big.
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fomalhaut



Joined: 06 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think the big three know that Workstations are their biggest sellers. Korg has been on top ever since they released the Kronos Workstation


I dont think that flagship workstations sell in numbers enough to have that impact in the bottom line for a company the size of Korg or Yamaha. The operational income is more in the entry price point
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GregC
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fomalhaut wrote:
Quote:
I think the big three know that Workstations are their biggest sellers. Korg has been on top ever since they released the Kronos Workstation


I dont think that flagship workstations sell in numbers enough to have that impact in the bottom line for a company the size of Korg or Yamaha. The operational income is more in the entry price point


I agree. Korg offers 40 different keyboards, synths . Many of them new as of 2019-20. And keyboards/synths is just 1 category of what Korg manufacturers.

This variety is the priority for Korg. Thats where the volume of sales are and why they are profitable.

Korg has changed significantly since their founder died in 2011. He was the visionary that led to OASYS/Kronos etc .

Korgs vision has changed significantly , as reflected in their new products, year after year, since 2011.

I follow the money by reviewing their new products year after year, not so much the history of Kronos. The lack of development of Kronos is striking, too, and shows that Korg Inc has not budgeted any significant Kronos development for 3 years.
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entonio



Joined: 19 Sep 2020
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kday wrote:

I think the big three know that Workstations are their biggest sellers.


I have the exact opposite impression, but I don't know the numbers. Imo, their workstations exist these days merely to 1) not leave the market free for the others and 2) have a prestige product with all the possible bells and whistles.


kday wrote:

Alesis Fusion was canned because they bungled their concept and sold a 21st Century Workstation concept at $3000 with a Kmart lower $300 Casio quality key-bed workmanship.


You'll know better than me, but I was under the impression that even the original price wasn't anything like that, while on the other hand a fair enough number of people have given positive reviews of the 8HD keys (I don't know about the 6HD).
QA issues are another matter, it's easy for a smaller player like Alesis to get burned by that.
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kday
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

entonio wrote:
kday wrote:

I think the big three know that Workstations are their biggest sellers.


I have the exact opposite impression,


I go by numbers.

Plus I was told Yamaha's biggest seller. Plus I see Kronos line being the top selling workstations for years at Thomann's europe, and retailers in the U.S.

entonio wrote:

kday wrote:

Alesis Fusion was canned because they bungled their concept and sold a 21st Century Workstation concept at $3000 with a Kmart lower $300 Casio quality key-bed workmanship.


You'll know better than me, but I was under the impression that even the original price wasn't anything like that, while on the other hand a fair enough number of people have given positive reviews of the 8HD keys (I don't know about the 6HD).
QA issues are another matter, it's easy for a smaller player like Alesis to get burned by that.


The price burned them. For nearly $3000 for the 8HD the OS was very difficult and nearly a primitive UI for all those wonderful features it gave you.
For that kind of money, it has to be a totally professional keyboard quality and ease of use for those brilliant features. They should've let Akai design the user interface being owned by the same company, as the Fusion didn't allow users to reach it's full potential because of difficulty in my opinion. Yamaha Motif XF are the same way, but the quality of the equipment and sounds is what saves them. UI always sucks.

PRODUCT SUMMARY
ALESIS
Fusion

keyboard workstation
6HD, $2,399
8HD, $2,999
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GregC
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="kday"][. Plus I see Kronos line being the top selling workstations for years at Thomann's europe, and retailers in the U.S.

[quote="entonio"]
kday wrote:



with thoman and what I recall, Kronos and Krome are the 'only ' workstations for a sales ranking. So sure, the rank will be strong.

In US, I am not aware of US retailers providing sales rank data.

I talk to a few US retailers and they are sketchy about talking sales volume. I can get on hand inventory but thats about it
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kday
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="GregC"][quote="kday"]
entonio wrote:
ng the top selling workstations for years at Thomann's europe, and retailers in the U.S.

[quote="entonio"]
kday wrote:



with thoman and what I recall, Kronos and Krome are the 'only ' workstations for a sales ranking. So sure, the rank will be strong.

In US, I am not aware of US retailers providing sales rank data.

I talk to a few US retailers and they are sketchy about talking sales volume. I can get on hand inventory but thats about it


All of the current workstations are ranked. Kronos been No 1 for years and years. Yamaha MODX 8 is just hit the No 1 spot a week ago.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="kday"][quote="GregC"][quote="kday"]
entonio wrote:
ng the top selling workstations for years at Thomann's europe, and retailers in the U.S.

entonio wrote:

kday wrote:



with thoman and what I recall, Kronos and Krome are the 'only ' workstations for a sales ranking. So sure, the rank will be strong.

In US, I am not aware of US retailers providing sales rank data.

I talk to a few US retailers and they are sketchy about talking sales volume. I can get on hand inventory but thats about it


All of the current workstations are ranked. Kronos been No 1 for years and years. Yamaha MODX 8 is just hit the No 1 spot a week ago.


MODX 8 is not considered a "workstation '. Its a " Compact Music Synthesiser"

Montage is a "synthesizer".

My take is that the boards are not in the same category for sales ranking for Thomann.
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kday
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="GregC"][quote="kday"][quote="GregC"]
kday wrote:
entonio wrote:
ng the top selling workstations for years at Thomann's europe, and retailers in the U.S.

entonio wrote:

kday wrote:



with thoman and what I recall, Kronos and Krome are the 'only ' workstations for a sales ranking. So sure, the rank will be strong.

In US, I am not aware of US retailers providing sales rank data.

I talk to a few US retailers and they are sketchy about talking sales volume. I can get on hand inventory but thats about it


All of the current workstations are ranked. Kronos been No 1 for years and years. Yamaha MODX 8 is just hit the No 1 spot a week ago.


MODX 8 is not considered a "workstation '. Its a " Compact Music Synthesiser"

Montage is a "synthesizer".

My take is that the boards are not in the same category for sales ranking for Thomann.


Rankings are listed as total keyboard sales in all categories. But if you wish to separate, then yeah the Kronos would be the No 1 selling Workstation. But Yamaha's biggest selling keyboard was said to be the Motif XF.
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Jan1
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On GS someone published a link to a cached page of a Ukrainian music store advertising the new KORG Nautilus workstation carrying a price tag of around €3000.

A Google translation of the info on that page:
‘Workstation, 88 keys, 1920 presets, 256 combi presets, 42098 samples, 4123 multisamples, RH3 mechanics, 7” Color TFT (WVGA, 800x480), about 25 GB memory’
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kday
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jan1 wrote:
On GS someone published a link to a cached page of a Ukrainian music store advertising the new KORG Nautilus workstation carrying a price tag of around €3000.

A Google translation of the info on that page:
‘Workstation, 88 keys, 1920 presets, 256 combi presets, 42098 samples, 4123 multisamples, RH3 mechanics, 7” Color TFT (WVGA, 800x480), about 25 GB memory’


If true, how would the specs that stack up with a current Kronos?
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Jan1
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kday wrote:
Jan1 wrote:
On GS someone published a link to a cached page of a Ukrainian music store advertising the new KORG Nautilus workstation carrying a price tag of around €3000.

A Google translation of the info on that page:
‘Workstation, 88 keys, 1920 presets, 256 combi presets, 42098 samples, 4123 multisamples, RH3 mechanics, 7” Color TFT (WVGA, 800x480), about 25 GB memory’


If true, how would the specs that stack up with a current Kronos?

There’s not enough information to draw any conclusions.
Also, I’m not sure if this is a Kronos successor, the price seems to suggest this is an instrument between the Krome and the Kronos.
But if this is an accidental leak then the Nautilus is not far off.
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