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PA4X - 76 price increase?
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Rich Z
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Joined: 16 Jul 2010
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Location: Tallahassee, FL, USA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:31 am    Post subject: PA4X - 76 price increase? Reply with quote

Is it just my imagination or did the PA4X-76 go up about $500 in just the past month or two? I've been looking at getting one off and on for a while now, and it seems that some places are showing as being out of stock, and others showing around $4,500 when the last I remember the price it was around $4,000.

How long have I been asleep? Smile
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Biggles
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends in which Country you are!

Here in the UK the Pa4X 76 is retailing locally for £2600 which is £200 more than it was a year ago.

At todays exchange rate it is $3600 and it never ceases to amaze me that prices in the US are so expensive for these arranger keyboards.
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Depends in which Country you are!


....yes and the currency exchange rate variations....
Here it is $6,000 - about $300-$400 up from 2019

Genos has gone up too - varying from $6,200-$7,000

Very Happy
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bpoodoo
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Joined: 27 Dec 2019
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Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, many keyboards across all manufacturers have gone up in price in the U.S. in the past month - whether and how much depends on the model. Kross 2 88 was $1299 for many years; now $1499. Nautilus 61 at introduction was $1999 now $2299.

Exchange rate as I understand it doesn't explain the US price increases - the U.S. Dollar actually buys more yen (5% more) than it did 6 months ago. These keyboard price increases are some combination of component costs, supply and demand, or simply a consequence of inflation increasing for all products and services.

A year ago we predicted this would happen, as discussed at the end of this thread:

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=122397&highlight=inflation Confused

A pricing game my grocery store likes to play is to raise the regular price and then put a SALE! price next to it which is higher than the previous regular price.
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Rich Z
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Location: Tallahassee, FL, USA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I guess we are just seeing runaway inflation taking place right before our eyes. It just means the value of our currency has been reduced, not that the value of the product has increased.

I'll be quite honest, the PA4X just seems to be getting too long in the tooth to be worth MORE money at this late date.

The reason I have been holding off buying a PA4X is because of this age consideration, and that a possible PA5X might be right around the corner.

I have been comparing this with the Yamaha Genos, of course, and there are things I like better in one over the other. But that $2,000 difference in price smooths over any compromises that would need to be taken into consideration that would favor the Genos over the PA4X.

Ah well, wouldn't be the first time that something priced itself beyond the line which I would be willing to pay for it and I choose to just do without.
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich wrote:
The reason I have been holding off buying a PA4X is because of this age consideration, and that a possible PA5X might be right around the corner.

Shall I buy?
Shall I wait?
Shall I buy?
Shall I wait?
Shall I buy?
Shall I wait?
Completely empathise with you Rich. None of us know if there even will be a "PA5X".
I can only recommend just going for the best one that suits you now unless you are in no hurry.
I absolutely love my PA4X and would be very picky now about "upgrading" it.
Despite the older hardware tech in current arrangers, so far I have no experience of that affecting my playing or performance requirements.
I do most of my "editing" on board and usually only connect to a DAW for audio recording sessions.
OK, that's just me but if you are wanting to enjoy and move with an outstanding keyboard quickly, I'd work on getting a "deal" on the PA4X.

All the best
Pete Very Happy
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Rich Z
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I am in no real hurry. I bought a Kronos back in 2015, and I putter around with it now and again. I actually was debating between the Kronos and the PA4X back then, and the Kronos won out.

I actually have a Roland BK-7m hooked up to it. Sorta. I don't think I have the midi handshaking exactly right. But it is more complicated working with, where I think everything in the one keyboard might be less of a headache.

My problem is that I always think that better equipment will make me a better keyboard player. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened yet, but I keep on thinking that the NEXT one will do the trick. Smile

But I'm running out of runway. I turned 71 recently, and I can feel that my hands aren't as limber as they used to be. And my memory, well, what were we talking about?
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Biggles
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally agree with you Rich.

I too have been holding off buying another Pa.

Take a detracted look at the Korg lineup and with the exception of the Nautilus (aka cut don Kronos) and a handful of purely Synths there has been no new workstations or arranger products from Korg since 2017.

The Pa4X Next OS is now old hat, and the 700 and 1000 have been around for four years without a major update.

Yamaha have released the SX600, SX700 and SX900 and the Genos in recent years and even Medeli have entered the arranger market at the 600/700 level.

Korg are sadly loosing ground and really need to release new versions of all their arrangers.
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Rich Z
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, after spending a LOT of time comparing the way the styles sound on both the PA4X and the Genos, I decided on the Genos. The styles on the PA4X just sounded, well, STALE to me. And, after all, styles are what I would be buying an arranger for anyway. Listening to the Genos styles, I felt the urge to play. Listening to the PA4X styles, well, it was late, so maybe that explains my tendency to fall asleep.

Genos more expensive? Yeah, it is. But if I removed the price comparison, and based the decision just on what SOUNDED better to me (as best could be determined from YouTube videos) the Genos just appeared that it would be much more FUN to play.

Yeah, I could wait around to see if Korg comes up with a PA5X or something, but as was mentioned, you could spend your whole life waiting on the next thing that you hope is coming.

But any way, I guess time will tell whether this was a good choice or not. I do know it was rather difficult finding anyone who actually had a Genos in stock. And forget about getting any sort of discount. Sad
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bpoodoo
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich Z wrote:
But I'm running out of runway. I turned 71 recently, and I can feel that my hands aren't as limber as they used to be. And my memory, well, what were we talking about?


Full throttle, V2, Rotate, Maintain runway heading, Contact departure 127.8. And enjoy your new keyboard!
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Full throttle, V2, Rotate, Maintain runway heading, Contact departure 127.8. And enjoy your new keyboard!

.... and resume own navigation..... Wink

Congratulations on getting the Genos - a good fun keyboard for sure....

Cheers Very Happy
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Korghelper
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich Z wrote:
I actually have a Roland BK-7m hooked up to it. Sorta. I don't think I have the midi handshaking exactly right. But it is more complicated working with, where I think everything in the one keyboard might be less of a headache.


Actually, the BK-7m is one of the easiest Roland’s to work with from another keyboard. It alone of the BK series has a mode where you send it ONE channel of MIDI and it remaps all its splits and layers (which would normally be on different channels) to work from that single channel.

After you’ve got that working, all you need to do is create Performances that have what sounds you want in the area you want it for each song you want to do, or genre etc., has the arranger section turned on or not, chord recognition type, etc. etc., and you are good to go.

You can even set up your Kronos to send an MSB/LSB PC# code to the BK that will call up that particular Performance (probably using the Kronos sequencer) so you get a one shot setup of both keyboards.

Most other brands have this ‘one channel remap’ mode, but Roland for some reason only had it on the module. Shame, as it makes hooking two arrangers or a workstation and an arranger together very easy compared to having to map all the channels from one to the other…
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Rich Z
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, I have no idea what I am doing wrong. The biggest issue I have is that the voices on the Kronos just seem like they get reduced in quality, almost become tinny sounding. Not right away, but after a short bit of playing. I tried disabling all MIDI communications that I thought would make voice changes on either device, but didn't help any. But it has been quite a while since I played around with it, and my memory isn't all that useful with such details any longer. Oh yeah, I also have a foot pedal panel hooked up to make changes in the BK-7M concerning the variations.

What I was shooting for was to have the timing on both the BK-7M and the Kronos synchronized such that I could use the Kronos karma functions along with the BK-7m's timing. Seems to me that was mostly working but would every now and again go out of sync. But again, was a while ago, and I just stopped trying as it was making playing a real chore and headache for me. I am not that good of a player (actually I am terrible! I have forgotten so much.) to start with, so it didn't help to have the equipment fighting with me. Sad

Maybe one of these days I'll tackle it again. If for no other reason that I just hate having something not working right knowing it is probably just a couple of settings that I don't understand the full ramifications of concerning MIDI.

Sometime, if you are so inclined, if you would like to give me some pointers, I would appreciate it. I doubt I will be giving up playing on the Kronos just because I will be getting a Genos in the same room. Of course, that being said, I do have a Kurzweil PC3x that I haven't touched since getting the Kronos.......
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich wrote:
Honestly, I have no idea what I am doing wrong. The biggest issue I have is that the voices on the Kronos just seem like they get reduced in quality, almost become tinny sounding. Not right away, but after a short bit of playing. I tried disabling all MIDI communications that I thought would make voice changes on either device, but didn't help any.

That is sounding like your Kronos may have a problem but I think unlikely.
Does this happen the same whether through headphones or AUDIO-OUTs - also possibly your audio system?
Try to eliminate the possibilities and just play Kronos on its own and see if the problem exists... etc...etc..

Good luck

Hope the Genos works well for you - I personally could not get along with it but it is all subjective and personal in the end.
Let us know how you go.

Pete Very Happy
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Rich Z
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

karmathanever wrote:
Rich wrote:
Honestly, I have no idea what I am doing wrong. The biggest issue I have is that the voices on the Kronos just seem like they get reduced in quality, almost become tinny sounding. Not right away, but after a short bit of playing. I tried disabling all MIDI communications that I thought would make voice changes on either device, but didn't help any.

That is sounding like your Kronos may have a problem but I think unlikely.
Does this happen the same whether through headphones or AUDIO-OUTs - also possibly your audio system?
Try to eliminate the possibilities and just play Kronos on its own and see if the problem exists... etc...etc..

Good luck

Hope the Genos works well for you - I personally could not get along with it but it is all subjective and personal in the end.
Let us know how you go.

Pete Very Happy


Oh, the Kronos plays fine by itself. But if I remember correctly, after playing with it along with the BK-7M, I had to power the Kronos down and then back on again for the sound to seem OK again. It was like the BK-7m changed something in the Kronos.

The Genos is supposed to arrive tomorrow. I think if I had in mind digging deeply into the keyboard to make custom mods, the PA4X probably would have been a better choice. But seems like I never have time, nor concentration capability, for that sort of thing. Matter of fact, even with the Kronos, I have yet to dig below the skin deep layer in it. I used to just eat up technical manuals and the like, but the older I get, the less incentive for time allocation I have for such things. Seems more like work and drudgery than entertainment to me lately. I guess if I did this professionally things would be different. But been many, MANY years since I played in a band. But I sure do wish these newer toys had been available back then. I loved my Hammond B3 and little Mini Moog, but this stuff is a whole new world now.
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