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Next arranger model - NEW DESIGN vs UPGRADE
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korghelper wrote:
I know you’d prefer a Yamaha/Korg argument

If you're referring to me then you are not reading my posts - but that's fine.
I think a lot of what you have posted generally makes sense and much is already posted throughout all the wish-lists.

Would be nice to know if Korg has taken any of our posts into account.
I am trying to "guess" (guess is all we have!!) how Korg might approach the future.
PA4X & Kronos - both very long in the tooth but super successful - where to from here?
Another upgrade would need to meet todays' hardware at least.
I would like to see a NEW arranger from someone - I think the overall arranger market could benefit.
But from Korg's perspective, there are many questions of course - most of which have to relate to sales.

We can only wait of course for Korg to "announce".

Anyone interested in an arranger module?
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thinking... what if Korg took a more "open" approach like a UNIX-based system environment enabling user and 3rd party development flexibility?
Could Korg benefit from this approach? I know this has been discussed a fair while ago in other forum sections too.
Add-on styles and sounds could be categorised and available so that we no longer have those genres we will never use - buy an "empty" keyboard.
Styles and sounds could be available as packages - Korg can still develop and sell these.

I know underlying UNIX exists in other keyboards but the "UNIX" is not "open" - everything is locked down and proprietary - well that is reasonable if the manufacturers need to remain in complete control - it could perhaps be more "selectively open".

I have no idea if this would be viable but just a thought....

Pete Very Happy
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Biggles
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

karmathanever wrote:
Korghelper wrote:
I know you’d prefer a Yamaha/Korg argument


Anyone interested in an arranger module?


Yes.

The Arranger module that someone made based on a Pa1000 was first seen by myself on a Korg Group on Fb and the person posted it was a Korg staffer and he asked …. Anyone interested in a Pa Module?

I responded yes, but only if it is based on a Pa4X layout.

As it is Ketron already have an number if Arranger Modules available for sale.

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Asena
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

karmathanever wrote:
Thinking... what if Korg took a more "open" approach like a UNIX-based system environment enabling user and 3rd party development flexibility?
Could Korg benefit from this approach? I know this has been discussed a fair while ago in other forum sections too.
Add-on styles and sounds could be categorised and available so that we no longer have those genres we will never use - buy an "empty" keyboard.
Styles and sounds could be available as packages - Korg can still develop and sell these.

I know underlying UNIX exists in other keyboards but the "UNIX" is not "open" - everything is locked down and proprietary - well that is reasonable if the manufacturers need to remain in complete control - it could perhaps be more "selectively open".
I have no idea if this would be viable but just a thought....

Pete Very Happy


Well, Great point , but NO, KORG will never do something like that, How i know???
Just think, KORGPAMANAGER, How manny times did people around the world asked for Sourcecodes, people with incredible sollutions on , Sound program organisers, Amd 100,ts of other think, Did KORG Replied on any of that=?
Also , this is a hide and seek game, it,s about huge cash, So KORG cant and will not do that Pete,
How KorgPamanager tried to Help users with this Superb program is the thing that hold Korg users calm, in manny manny ways.

Your topic is a great knowledge basis for KORG, They must listen to you, and the Users.
I hope they will, because if they don,t, They will lose the people who buys their product.
manny mistake in 3 years.
Like the I3, after 20 plus years, Like WHY?
Or making the same unit in difrent colors, We do not need Colors we need New and fresh things , Like better Sound, Better OS, Better screen, Better Sampling mode, Better of TODAYS SOUND AND MUSC not recykled New PA MODEL, wich is the same OPS, just 1 gb more or 128X2.
We need the best Keyboard Synth company to show of!
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Asena
Also some great points - had not considered the PAMANAGER history....

So you are saying that you would like to see a "fresh" arranger - I think that would be very exciting particularly if Korg remain thinking "professional" and incorporate some of the very valid "wishes" we have all listed of the years - let's have a modern-2022-arranger.

Cheers

Pete Very Happy
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BR
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

karmathanever wrote:
Thinking... what if Korg took a more "open" approach like a UNIX-based system environment enabling user and 3rd party development flexibility?
Could Korg benefit from this approach? I know this has been discussed a fair while ago in other forum sections too.
Add-on styles and sounds could be categorised and available so that we no longer have those genres we will never use - buy an "empty" keyboard.
Styles and sounds could be available as packages - Korg can still develop and sell these.

I know underlying UNIX exists in other keyboards but the "UNIX" is not "open" - everything is locked down and proprietary - well that is reasonable if the manufacturers need to remain in complete control - it could perhaps be more "selectively open".

I have no idea if this would be viable but just a thought....

Pete Very Happy
Pete, I like your suggestion if Korg offers the affordable Add On package for styles and sounds for different genre of music.
Hope this dream will come true.

@Asena,
You're right about Korg Pa Manager and I hope one day Korg company will be more flexible and cooperative with the third party developers,
like Native Instrument, Steinberg, etc... which collaborate with third party developers.
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Korghelper
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It’s hard to sell software that even cost a few hundred dollars, but apparently easy to sell hardware that costs thousands. I don’t think there is any upside for Korg to open out their architecture. Unless it is as heavily protected as say an iPad and the Apple Store (a huge undertaking before a cent of profit is made) it’s going to be the Wild West out there!

Lionstracs already tried the open arranger bit, and we all know how well that worked out…

To be honest, I’ve posted about the simplest and easiest solution to integration before, and it’s the one thing Korg have resisted for years… allow the user to define every single knob, slider and button to send any damn MIDI code (including sysex strings) you want, and then you USB into a laptop or Mac Mini and let it do all the software stuff.

On the subject of the Kronos PA line issue, I think you may have missed the point, karma. We honestly don’t need an utterly new engine from Korg to push the arranger line into territory that would significantly improve it, and push certain aspects back into closer to parity with Yamaha’s Genos (and just about every modern workstation made). We just need that bloody ten year old Kronos engine. This is the cheapest solution Korg could use. The hardware, the main sound generation software, the I/O, the GUI drivers, they are already done and dusted. All that is needed is the hooks from the arranger software into the engine. Some work on the GUI, maybe cop the multi-part chord sequencer from the Genos, you got a product that’s light years ahead of the PA series with next to no major investment…

Korg going open source is a pipe dream. Never going to happen. These are tough times for the sector. Let’s hope Korg don’t take the absolute cheapest solution, which is to simply trot out another Triton hardware based arranger. But the next cheapest solution is still a huge leap forward. And it’s a darn sight cheaper than brand new hardware, software and some kind of open source trickery…
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Asena
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well After my researching, I found out that There will be a PA5X model, in march i think!

What will be so called new?
Already Pa1000 have better CPU on iyt than the 4 x, But does not use it (YET)

Pa 4 x does not have HDMI, PA 1000 have it already, so maybe we will have a new PA4X with some minor upgrade same sound engine And HDMI, WOW, that is exactly what we all are waiting for.
Another thing is, YAMAHA GENOS have the best sounding Workstation they say,


Sound quality YES, NEW SOUNDS NO WAY.
Even the new added KINETIC strings are far from the sound we are after,
I think my strings are far better than that and PLAYEBLE , i can use it live, Play forte eforte etc.
For me , GENOS is Nothing more than a bigg LIE from the Yamaha Company.
I still love my KORG yes, Why because there is much better Synth engine, more open, more user friendly.
For editing a sound on YAMAHA GENOS or alla YAMAHA workstation you must care a laptop and yem.
I wanna be free, Not depended on YEM in live edit.
Korg maybe have listened us this time, Well, we will wait and see.
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ckobu
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Asena wrote:

The only ONE AND ONLY thing that made KORG on their feets is the KORG PA MANAGER!
Thanx to that program we had a chance to build new set fikes that made us to play along more than 2 yers now.


Asena wrote:

For editing a sound on YAMAHA GENOS or alla YAMAHA workstation you must care a laptop and yem.
I wanna be free, Not depended on YEM in live edit.



Hi Asena,
you are a little contradictory to me in your statements. Wink
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Asena
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ckobu wrote:
Asena wrote:

The only ONE AND ONLY thing that made KORG on their feets is the KORG PA MANAGER!
Thanx to that program we had a chance to build new set fikes that made us to play along more than 2 yers now.


Asena wrote:

For editing a sound on YAMAHA GENOS or alla YAMAHA workstation you must care a laptop and yem.
I wanna be free, Not depended on YEM in live edit.



Hi Asena,
you are a little contradictory to me in your statements. Wink


Well read it again my friend, KORG has better synth engine, Yamaha Has nothing close to it, you can edit sounds import samples ONLY via YEM, Thats my point on it.
Nothing less or more.
Razz
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just reading more above - I definitely don't want a bunch of "configure it yourself" buttons.
Control surface is critical for most keyboards but especially arrangers. Kronos is bad enough playing live/recording to quickly ensure the slider you are about to change is in the correct "mode" etc....
(By the way, when I say "bad enough" I mean that Kronos is fabulous but not the easiest to manage in terms of control surface - but then it is an outstanding workstation - and NOT an arranger.)
So, for me, PA4x is pretty good in that regard, please don't give us an arranger-workstation with 72 buttons and sliders which have no dedicated purpose (or too many multiple purposes) Brick wall
If I am going to replace my PA4X then I want an arranger as a replacement, not a super hybrid. That's my requirement.

I don't care if it is a superb Korg upgrade or a brand new arranger (that would excite me for sure).

P Very Happy
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ckobu
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Asena,

I'm just reading what you write, you wouldn't want to be addicted to computers when editing. PAManager is just that and you still have to pay for it. YEM is free, and you can process sounds as needed on the keyboard. No one at the gig edits the sound base, it’s done at home.

For work at home, is it easier for you to look at a small screen with poor resolution than to enjoy the comfort of hd resolution monitor? Razz
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Asena
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ckobu wrote:
Hi Asena,

I'm just reading what you write, you wouldn't want to be addicted to computers when editing. PAManager is just that and you still have to pay for it. YEM is free, and you can process sounds as needed on the keyboard. No one at the gig edits the sound base, it’s done at home.

For work at home, is it easier for you to look at a small screen with poor resolution than to enjoy the comfort of hd resolution monitor? Razz


I Undarstand that, but What YEM does is a toy side of the KORG Pa manager structure handling,
I,m like all keyboard players also live gigger, YES you make your sounds Home, but some of the things you wanna do live cant be done like PA4X on Other brands and YAMAHA is superp in Synths , not workstation Arrangers. YES they sound great, but in term of using live , NO, its a PAIN INTHE PANTALONES Smile
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MEDELI AKX-10




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Biggles
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Asena wrote:
Well After my researching, I found out that There will be a PA5X model, in march i think!

What will be so called new?

Already Pa1000 have better CPU on iyt than the 4 x, But does not use it (YET)



That is what I have thought for quite a while.

I have assumed that as the OS of the 1000 & 700 have not been updated significantly they or at least the 1000 will get their version of Next when the Pa 5X is released in order to refresh what are now old models.

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Bachus
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biggles wrote:
Asena wrote:
Well After my researching, I found out that There will be a PA5X model, in march i think!

What will be so called new?

Already Pa1000 have better CPU on iyt than the 4 x, But does not use it (YET)



That is what I have thought for quite a while.

I have assumed that as the OS of the 1000 & 700 have not been updated significantly they or at least the 1000 will get their version of Next when the Pa 5X is released in order to refresh what are now old models.


Will it be a Pa5x ?

Or will it be something new, the (r)evolution the arranger world needs?

Personally, i think the high end version of the pa series will finally step to the hardware structure of the Kronos/nautilus.. giving it much much more power..

There is quite a lot of those engines that would also make sense in a pa series key.. it shouldn’t be to hard and to expensive to get a hardware boost compared to the Kronos..
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