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WaveState Update - Is Sucking my will to live
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4199
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jb58 wrote:

I completely agree ! What I am most worried about is the fact that nothing is moving at Korg it seems. They don't publish any explanation, timeline, whatever to see that they are on the connection issues and it will be solved some time in the future. When I checked their Compatibility Chart this week I could see an incredibly long list of issues that are under investigation for different Windows 10 versions and for Windows 11 (?) for many Korg instruments...


My impression is that "under investigation" is the default entry in the "Compatibility Chart."

I'd like to emphasize that there are no known issues with the network communications on the wavestate. Most reported issues have been resolved by closely following the installation instructions and, where necessary, troubleshooting steps. (I absolutely agree that it would be better if less manual setup was necessary on Windows, btw.) A few Windows users have had to reconfigure Bonjour. Back when we were using RNDIS on the Mac, we had one user who had an old version of RNDIS installed; removing that solved the problem. The other handful of problems have been related to networking in general. For example, two users on Frontier internet providers in the USA have had difficulties with an obscure DNS setting - which we know about because it causes issues with non-Korg products as well.

Regardless of the cause of the problem, the first thing to do when you need help with any Korg product is to contact your national Korg distributor, such as Korg USA, Korg UK, etc. - for a full list, see https://www.korg.com/us/corporate/distributors/ . They will be happy to help! Forums can be extremely helpful, but it can also be difficult to use them for detailed one-on-one support.
_________________
Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com
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DungBeatle



Joined: 09 May 2015
Posts: 16
Location: Brussels, Belgium

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danatkorg wrote:

DungBeatle wrote:
Coming back to the Wavestate.. I'd love to know why Bonjour was deemed necessary to write a firmware updater.


An alternative would be for the user to manually enter an IP address, which would have its own points of failure.


Excuse my ignorance of USB protocol internals, but surely USB does not entertain the concept of an IP address? I've designed and implemented a number of custom protocols on top of the TCP/IP stack.. there users may have to be exposed to IP addresses.. but USB?

danatkorg wrote:

Fortunately, very few people have had trouble with Bonjour on the wavestate - which makes sense, as it is an industry standard mechanism. Those were only on Windows;


.. as in only on the most popular OS in the world? Call me critical, but the use of the expression "only on" doesn't seem appropriate.

danatkorg wrote:

I'm not aware of a single issue with Bonjour on the Mac, since it's a fundamental part of Mac networking, though I'm always happy to be corrected. The bigger difficulty appears to be in getting through the steps required for Windows network setup, and I'd like to make that easier.


The logic of my argument is that Korg should first have investigated the risks of imposing Bonjour dependencies on your Windows customers before giving the green light to develop an updater that relies on this technology on all supported platforms (e.g. Windows and Mac).

I would still appreciate reading why Bonjour was such an absolute must. Just saying it's an industry standard doesn't cut it for me. There are tons of industry standards that could remotely find a use in an electronic music context.. that doesn't mean there are really solid reasons to use all of these industry standards. So, without wanting to be too pushy here: what exactly within Bonjour made it so unresistable to your (otherwise undeniably clever) software engineers?
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4199
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DungBeatle wrote:
danatkorg wrote:

DungBeatle wrote:
Coming back to the Wavestate.. I'd love to know why Bonjour was deemed necessary to write a firmware updater.


An alternative would be for the user to manually enter an IP address, which would have its own points of failure.


Excuse my ignorance of USB protocol internals, but surely USB does not entertain the concept of an IP address? I've designed and implemented a number of custom protocols on top of the TCP/IP stack.. there users may have to be exposed to IP addresses.. but USB?


The wavestate communicates using networking (TCP/IP) over USB. Have you had a chance to read the documentation which accompanied the updater? At the top of the first page, there's this section:

* * *
What’s installed on my computer, and why?

The Updater communicates with the wavestate using networking over USB, as opposed to MIDI. To automatically identify and connect with the wavestate over the network, the Updater uses the mDNS standard. On Windows, this requires Apple Inc.’s Bonjour, which is installed along with the wavestate Updater application.
* * *

As an engineer, you might be interested in this overview:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_over_USB

DungBeatle wrote:

danatkorg wrote:

Fortunately, very few people have had trouble with Bonjour on the wavestate - which makes sense, as it is an industry standard mechanism. Those were only on Windows;


.. as in only on the most popular OS in the world? Call me critical, but the use of the expression "only on" doesn't seem appropriate.


You noted that you were on a Mac, and were complaining about use of Bonjour - hence my response.

DungBeatle wrote:
danatkorg wrote:

I'm not aware of a single issue with Bonjour on the Mac, since it's a fundamental part of Mac networking, though I'm always happy to be corrected. The bigger difficulty appears to be in getting through the steps required for Windows network setup, and I'd like to make that easier.


The logic of my argument is that Korg should first have investigated the risks of imposing Bonjour dependencies on your Windows customers before giving the green light to develop an updater that relies on this technology on all supported platforms (e.g. Windows and Mac).


As I mentioned above, zero-config (aka Bonjour) has not proven to be a significant issue - certainly no more so than any other aspect of network configuration. Not surprising, since zero-config is a mature and widely-used technology.

DungBeatle wrote:
I would still appreciate reading why Bonjour was such an absolute must.


As I mentioned above, the alternative would have been for the user to manually enter an IP address. I didn't write that it was an "absolute must," but in general it makes connection much simpler.
_________________
Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com
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jb58



Joined: 05 May 2021
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danatkorg wrote:
jb58 wrote:

I completely agree ! What I am most worried about is the fact that nothing is moving at Korg it seems. They don't publish any explanation, timeline, whatever to see that they are on the connection issues and it will be solved some time in the future. When I checked their Compatibility Chart this week I could see an incredibly long list of issues that are under investigation for different Windows 10 versions and for Windows 11 (?) for many Korg instruments...


My impression is that "under investigation" is the default entry in the "Compatibility Chart."

I'd like to emphasize that there are no known issues with the network communications on the wavestate. Most reported issues have been resolved by closely following the installation instructions and, where necessary, troubleshooting steps. (I absolutely agree that it would be better if less manual setup was necessary on Windows, btw.) A few Windows users have had to reconfigure Bonjour. Back when we were using RNDIS on the Mac, we had one user who had an old version of RNDIS installed; removing that solved the problem. The other handful of problems have been related to networking in general. For example, two users on Frontier internet providers in the USA have had difficulties with an obscure DNS setting - which we know about because it causes issues with non-Korg products as well.

Regardless of the cause of the problem, the first thing to do when you need help with any Korg product is to contact your national Korg distributor, such as Korg USA, Korg UK, etc. - for a full list, see https://www.korg.com/us/corporate/distributors/ . They will be happy to help! Forums can be extremely helpful, but it can also be difficult to use them for detailed one-on-one support.


Hi Dan,

I really appreciate your presence on this forum, and I am also not here for long discussions. What well intrigues me why can I not make the connection work with 20 years of IT experience ?? To begin with, my Wavestate never appears now in my Bonjour browser since august 2021, whatever I remove/purge/reinstall. So I don't even try with the editor.
I have done the installation process more than 10 times, on 3 different Windows 10 laptops, recently also on a Windows 11 laptop. On two of the laptops was no Korg software installed before.
Believe me, once or twice I could maybe miss something from the instructions, but not 10 times. My Wavestate is on v2, I could only do the upgrade in USB boot mode. My laptops are either on Windows 10 20h2 or on Windows 11.

Btw: could you please elaborate what do you mean by reconfiguring Bonjour service ? I don't see such an option in Windows 10/11.


Best regards,
Janos
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jb58



Joined: 05 May 2021
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:08 pm    Post subject: Connection working in Windows 11 ! Reply with quote

See my recent post here:

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=126243

Antivirus software was the bottleneck in my case, now I could connect my Wavestate on two different Windows 11 laptops Smile.
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4199
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Janos,

jb58 wrote:
I really appreciate your presence on this forum, and I am also not here for long discussions. What well intrigues me why can I not make the connection work with 20 years of IT experience ??


My guess, and I mean this with no disrespect, is that you missed the note in the troubleshooting section which warns that software firewalls can prevent the required ports from being accessible.

jb58 wrote:
To begin with, my Wavestate never appears now in my Bonjour browser since august 2021, whatever I remove/purge/reinstall. So I don't even try with the editor.


If you can use the updater, you can use the editor. Both rely on Bonjour.

jb58 wrote:
Btw: could you please elaborate what do you mean by reconfiguring Bonjour service ? I don't see such an option in Windows 10/11.


One or two people have solved weird Windows problems by uninstalling and then reinstalling Bonjour.

Best regards,

Dan
_________________
Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com
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jb58



Joined: 05 May 2021
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

danatkorg wrote:
Hi Janos,

jb58 wrote:
I really appreciate your presence on this forum, and I am also not here for long discussions. What well intrigues me why can I not make the connection work with 20 years of IT experience ??


My guess, and I mean this with no disrespect, is that you missed the note in the troubleshooting section which warns that software firewalls can prevent the required ports from being accessible.

jb58 wrote:
To begin with, my Wavestate never appears now in my Bonjour browser since august 2021, whatever I remove/purge/reinstall. So I don't even try with the editor.


If you can use the updater, you can use the editor. Both rely on Bonjour.

jb58 wrote:
Btw: could you please elaborate what do you mean by reconfiguring Bonjour service ? I don't see such an option in Windows 10/11.


One or two people have solved weird Windows problems by uninstalling and then reinstalling Bonjour.

Best regards,

Dan


Thanks Dan, now it is even more clear. Concerning the upgrade, I could only do it in USB boot mode so Bonjour was not involved. In the meantime I just see that the software firewall of AVG makes it impossible to enable the ports for Bonjour - it has fixed rules to block the ports I need, and it has no option to deactivate them.

Best regards,
Janos
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transmit



Joined: 28 Jul 2020
Posts: 5
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello

just for info on the subject of WIN 10 updates.

I now have Win 10 version 21H1 on my 1st DAW Studio PC and WIN10 version. 21H2 on it.
Both versions run clean without problems, my Wavestate with the editor!!! works wonderfully and my Modwave with the editor!!! also works perfectly without errors. Both editors are recognized without problems and both run side by side as intended over USB network: NCM

Kind regards

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
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Muriatic



Joined: 14 Feb 2022
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am using linux as my OS and, by hosting a Windows 10 virtual machine via the free virtualbox application, I was able to update my firmware from 1.01 to 1.04 to 1.06 to 2.01. I can also easily run the editor/librarian and I will try the sample builder too.

I hope this encouragement will be of use to people who are having or who have had difficulty with the Korg software running on a "native" Windows OS.
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