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Modeled Rickenbacker 12 string?

 
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Johnf_tx



Joined: 04 Feb 2022
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Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:14 pm    Post subject: Modeled Rickenbacker 12 string? Reply with quote

Several years ago there was some discussion about modeled Rickenbacker 12 string programs, which apparently do not exist. Several people made well-intended suggestions about duplicating and phasing notes. Others made not so helpful suggestions that declared the Byrds, The Animals (it's my life) and Tom Petty did not use 12 string guitars. (Absurd.)

i've played a number of Rickenbackers in the past and listened extensively to these artists. I once owned a Fender Villager 12 string acoustic guitar.
These create a haunting tone that has been discussed at great length on guitar forums. Non-guitarist who love pedals seem to think they are creating the sound from a six string but the players disagree.

My own opinion is there something going on where the strings are influencing each other, but I don't know. That's for others to analyze.

What I do know is that I can't create anywhere near the effect of a Rickenbacker on my Kronos. i've tried all the suggestions. While they sound sort of like a 12 string, they fall far short of really duplicating that Rickenbacker sound, especially when play it in a song instead of just playing one note.

The models of some of the pianos are incredibly accurate and evolve as you hold down the note and change when you play adjacent notes. I have been shocked at how well these Kronos models fit the Bosendorfers that I have had the privilege to play. I know this was quite a feat, but someone who knew how to create this sort of thing using models could surely create a Rickenbacker sound that worked across tones and chords.

I don't know anything about creating models but I have got to believe that someone has done this. It's just too cool of a sound and I don't understand why it doesn't seem to be available. Maybe somebody has it just sitting in their library.

Creating The sound is certainly beyond my capability. Does anyone have a source of a program of a Rickenbacker that sounds like a Rickenbacker?

Thank you in advance!

John
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Broadwave
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2022 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I'm going to reply...

I've tried in the past to recreate a Rick 12 String, but the simple problem is that the sound is very complex.

You need to take into consideration the string order - Ricks have the heavy strings first (most, if not all of the others have the light strings first). Then you have the Toaster pickups which have a VERY distinctive tone, and as with all guitars it depends on where you paly the notes on the neck... a C played on the G string sounds different from it being played on the B.

I have a pretty good early 60s Strat sound that I created using the String Engine, but you can't just double it up an octave higher with a bit of envelope delay, and hope it sounds like a 12 string.

I've had 4 decades of using/programming synths, and even I've given up trying Sad
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Johnf_tx



Joined: 04 Feb 2022
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Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2022 8:43 pm    Post subject: Rickenbacker Reply with quote

Thank you so much for the reply.

The Rickenbacker sound was so much a part of the 60s through the 90s that I couldn't imagine it being omitted. I've searched and searched for a program on it and was beginning to think there must be something difficult about programming it. Your explanation makes a great deal of sense because the sound is so distinctive. I did not realize that the strings were inverted, which makes it a bit more unusual. I had read about the electronics being differnt than most.

Thanks again for the response!
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AntonySharmman
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2022 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just FYI , Wavesart owns "Rickenbacker 12 strings Guitar" fully sampled (5GB)
With a brief look I found in our resources
- 2,1 Gb of Sustained note samples :
[ 3 Velocity layers of 1 - 6 strings ] X 2 Up/Down Round Robin / 22 sampled notes per string layer = 792 samples.
- 2,2 Gb of all round-robin articulation of guitar like harmonics, picks, slides , releases and FX

We do not believe that this guitar is highly evaluated that's why not included in our Kronos EXs among other resources
but if anyone needs to develop it for him from scratch , just email at our service https://wavesart.eu/Hire
although it will cost some working days of a sound developer.

Regards
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Johnf_tx



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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anthony,

Are you saying that you already have a program oof a Rickenbacker? Sorry, but I can't tell if you're offering to create one or if you have one.

If you have one, I'm sure we would all love to hear it.

Thank you!
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AntonySharmman
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WavesArt have in circulation in ElectroAcoustic EXs , the far better Guilt 12-String Guitar ( https://youtu.be/phL82EEmB1o?t=12 ) ,
we also have full Rickenbacker 12-strings samples as explained but we have not created it for Kronos engine and this can be done only after ordering.

Regards
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Derek Cook
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whilst not a modelled Rickie (which I love the sound of), then the Scarbee Rickenbacker sounds pretty good to my ears

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/guitar/scarbee-rickenbacker-bass/

Now, if only I had Chris Squire or Geddy Lee to hand....
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AntonySharmman
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derek Cook wrote:
Scarbee Rickenbacker sounds pretty good to my ears
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/guitar/scarbee-rickenbacker-bass/

Yep but conversation is for Rickenbacker 12-strings guitar !
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Johnf_tx



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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to reiterate. What I've been looking for is a Korg Kronos model of a Rickenbacker 12 string electric. I think the model is 360. A sample is not enough because it won't recreate the effect of the adjacent strings going in and out of phase as they influence each other.

There are great examples of models on the most recent factory released Bosendorfer grand piano programs.

I do not think this program exists. But its sure not a bass or even an acoustic Rickenbacker.

Not sure how this drifted off topic like this.

Thank you
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CliveJ
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry. Dumb question retracted
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Now let’s think of a reason why it CAN be done...


Last edited by CliveJ on Sat May 07, 2022 1:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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AntonySharmman
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnf_tx wrote:
I'd like to reiterate. What I've been looking for is a Korg Kronos model of a Rickenbacker 12 string electric


John , sorry for misleading you , yep we own Rickenbacker 12 string guitar and its the electric version and not acoustic that
actually do not exist , but samples are the clean pure samples of guitar as always in sampling industry !
FX racks are always created in workstations with the available factory effects , except Kontakt VST sampler where we create
processors via programming code.

So if you want to recreate specific effects & flanger colors I don't think that you will never be able to , so you'd better use a
VST product of team mates that you can listen there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqY1HvfUnU4 and avoid any other
cost , since those script features can never be recreated in a hardware workstation at least until next decade !

Regards
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Derek Cook
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry! I saw Rickenbacker and instantly think bass!

Embarassed

The only Rickie 12 string model I have is in my Variax 500
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Johnf_tx



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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to both of you!

John
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