Korg Forums Forum Index Korg Forums
A forum for Korg product users and musicians around the world.
Moderated Independently.
Owned by Irish Acts Recording Studio & hosted by KORG USA
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

A new alternative to Kronos and Nautilus
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korg Forums Forum Index -> Korg Kronos
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ITguy54
Full Member


Joined: 22 Mar 2015
Posts: 195

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:05 pm    Post subject: A new alternative to Kronos and Nautilus Reply with quote

Akai Pro MPC Key 61

Comes with 25 virtual instruments built in, support for 3rd party AU/VST plugins, AFTERTOUCH, no sliders for drawbar controls.

Street price: around $1900.

https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2022/06/18/akai-pro-mpc-key-61-the-first-keyboard-music-production-center/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blazerunner
Full Member


Joined: 15 Nov 2017
Posts: 218

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup,

I mentioned the MPC's capabilities and it's threat to the Kronos a long time ago. What it has that murders everything on the market right now is this "MPC2 Software". You can go stand alone or record your projects right into the MPC Software DAW.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
afr
Senior Member


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 309

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if the new Akai will cover all the sounds available on Kronos, orchestral, guitar, acoustic instruments and so on

My feeling is that Akai is something more dance oriented but I can be wrong

Personally I would love to see a new and updated Kronos 3 or whatever name
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SeedyLee
Platinum Member


Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 1283
Location: Perth, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had an MPC One for a while and was quite disappointed.

The UI was undoubtedly slick, the sampling workflow was quite nice. But the synth engines were extremely limited, the sound quality in the sampler wasn’t great, lots of missing basic features, no streaming even of audio tracks. Inability to even change tempo or time signature in a sequence! The effects were also rather ooor quality, in my humble opinion.

The only improvements I could see compared to the Kronos was that, for pattern based sequencing, it worked a lot better than the Kronos. The sampler was also quite nice to use. Oh, and having MTC Sync was pretty nice.

Keep in mind that the processor in the Akai is roughly as powerful as a $30 Raspberry PI 3 …

For certain musical genres, I think they’re great as a beat-making device, but as a keyboard it sounds like cheap, early 2000s VSTs.
_________________
Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 61, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW1600 Monotron, , Roland JV-80 & JV-1080 Kawai L1, Lexicon MX200,

Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Koekepan
Platinum Member


Joined: 27 Sep 2016
Posts: 552

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't get an MPC, but a Force instead.

It doesn't have a keyboard, but its pads are good quality, and provide aftertouch. The software updates have been regular and monumental - it now does streaming, it has additional, higher quality engines and effects, and it is a capable studio master.

Is it a Kronos replacement? Not really, because of its focus on things such as dance sounds and sampling. It's not to say that the Force isn't very capable (it is), but that it has a different style. If you're looking for a closer analogue to the Kronos, I'd go for Kurzweil. If you have a lot of external gear to drive and you want to do detailed sequencing, I'd choose the Force all day long.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Conway
Approved Merchant
Approved Merchant


Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 2394
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koekepan wrote:
I didn't get an MPC, but a Force instead.


I'm about to pull the trigger on a Force. I like that you can put a 2 terrabyte SSD drive and stream tons of samples and audio tracks/clips, something the MPCs aren't doing, yet.

Not a Kronos replacement, at all, but a nice supplement with all of its audio cababilities.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
blazerunner
Full Member


Joined: 15 Nov 2017
Posts: 218

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a bit disappointed... hearing this stuff about the MPC but I have to remind myself we're on the Korg website.


The MPC's are just like the Kronos. You have to buy expansions to get sounds. Akai's factory sounds are meh but it's the libraries that 3rd party companies make that are what lets you truly expand it. You have instruments libraries where you can get pianos' brass, synths etc, etc. just like the Kronos has and they're cheaper to buy.

The MPC has a lot of deep dive features the Kronos lacks like Drum Synth and all the other jazz. It's actually deeper than the Kronos but way simpler to use and understand.

As for the sequencer. It does more than the Kronos does. It's a stand alone daw that can be used with Daw or it's own Daw. You can control a lot of external gear with it. From Midi to CV and automate it.

It a true music production center. It has the virtual effects like the Kronos but on steroids it's too deep to go over but the chains and effects options are a dream. Best of all they're modern and up to date. The Ducker is my favorite.

The excitement about the 61 Key is Akai's focus of bringing more keyboard textures to the MPC platform so you'll get stuff similar to Korg's 9 engines. Akai already started adding virtual engines to the MPC's but the use of them can be over looked unless you hook up a midi controller or keyboard to them.

It's a Music Production Center but it's highly underused if all people do is cut up trap beats. It's capable of recording full blown tracks with automation. It has XLR jacks and all the jazz you need. With the MPC software it's basically on par with your favorite recording programs. Everything is inside the box.

The MPC is a deep dive just like the Kronos but the MPC is modern and has more features and options.

I've owned the MPC-X, MPC One and now the Force and all I can say is that Akai really has evolved the MPC series a lot. You make a complaint they listen and not only fix it but blow your mind away. I wish Korg had that kind of support for the Kronos or just in general and Akai's updates are FREE. Which is nice because you get sound engines with their updates.

The MPC is a power house but it's only going to be what you make it. People use the MPC's for so many different applications it's never exactly one thing because it's a jack of all trades.

The 61 Key should bring a lot more sound design companies making libraries for it as well as AKAI themselves but Akai likes to outsource their sounds. I'm excited for the 61 Key. The Kronos Sampler is a PITA and the MPC sampler design is simplistic, modern and more advanced.

It should be quite exciting having a 61 key MPC. The daw integration alone makes it worth a buy to me. Like all stuff though it's style might not be everyone's cup of tea. Some like the Kronos, some prefer the Montage, and some love the Phantoms but the MPC Key is definitely going to be a wild card.

The MPC had already taken the place of the workstation keyboards people would of had purchased before. This was a smart choice by Akai to offer something in the one area that Keyboard manufacturers were lacking in. A keyboard based music production center that you can basically load any sound you want into it. It's going to be very interesting!

This all in my humble gear loving opinion of course Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blazerunner
Full Member


Joined: 15 Nov 2017
Posts: 218

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Conway wrote:
Koekepan wrote:
I didn't get an MPC, but a Force instead.


I'm about to pull the trigger on a Force. I like that you can put a 2 terrabyte SSD drive and stream tons of samples and audio tracks/clips, something the MPCs aren't doing, yet.

Not a Kronos replacement, at all, but a nice supplement with all of its audio cababilities.


The Force is a different animal that's for sure. I like that it has some features of the MPC X but it has a 64 pad layout. It's a "Grid based" sampler/sequencer/controller and has a completely different approach to your ideas. It's a very different feel from an MPC to me. To me it's something like an MPC X, Meets an Elektron Octatrack, meets an Ableton push. It's such an odd ball device but so capable. biggest downside to it is that Akai made it truly stand alone and did not think to make it usable with MPC Software or it's own software for it. That would have truly made it a FORCE to be reckoned with.

I think Akai has the same problems Chevrolet has/had. They make products that can compete with their top tier products so they start sacrificing things on the lower tier products to protect their flagship models.

The Force should have came with an adjustable Tilt screen, it's own version of MPC software, Force Software, and full sized Midi jacks. That would have really made it a thing of it's own but if you want to use the Force you are FORCEd to sacrifice those things...and you quickly realize that Akai just made the unit inconvenient for no practical reason to the user. Same as the MPC One not being portable and having it's own battery or up gradable hard drive.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Conway
Approved Merchant
Approved Merchant


Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 2394
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blazerunner wrote:

The Force is a different animal that's for sure


Just ordered the Force. I was looking at the MPC Live 2, but no disk streaming. The more that I looked at the Force, the more I liked it. The visual feedback colors from the 64 pads is really cool and the idea grew on me. I'll make do with the 1/8" MIDI connections. As for the screen, I'll tilt the entire unit, the way I do with my Kronos.


blazerunner wrote:

The Kronos Sampler is a PITA and the MPC sampler design is simplistic, modern and more advanced.


I started with 2 Yamaha TX16Ws, so anything else seems simple to me. Once you get into the Kronos workflow, it's quite good. The trick is to DELETE 7 of the 8 Index zones, so that you just have one to look at. Adjust that one, then ADD zones as needed.

I just watched a video where a guy set up his Force to multisample automatically. He set the number of velocity layers, key interval, loop, and sample duration, then went off to make coffee while the Force multisampled a VST sound.

I'm not worried about what kind of sounds are in it, since I like to sample a lot of my own things. My Kronos sample memory is quite full, so having 2 terabytes to record into the Force, to play with however I like, is very enticing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Koekepan
Platinum Member


Joined: 27 Sep 2016
Posts: 552

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to be too off-topic on a KORG board ... (who am I kidding, this whole thread should be a gigantic wake-up call to KORG)

The Force and MPC lines both enable us to multi-sample other sound sources, hardware as well as software. I did that to my Dreadbox Erebus, and got great textures from it. You can also import a lot of old Akai sampler formats (with some limitations).

As far as disc streaming is concerned, I anticipate that it will come soon for the MPC line but the Force has it today. I don't happen to use it much because I have a different approach to composition, but it's really nice for long textures underneath a piece, such as recordings of waves crashing or something like that.

I do have a few wishlist items; I wish that they'd enable optical mouse support over their USB so that the screen would work better for people who don't like touchscreens for one reason or another, I'd have liked curve drawing capabilities (perhaps splines) in automation windows. I'm not too excited by a common complaint; that people want different time signatures. I'm pretty good at arithmetic, so that doesn't worry me.

The only thing that I would have liked that requires a hardware change, besides more of everything (of course) is a tilting screen, but on a 3D-printed stand, it works well. A USB MIDI keyboard works beautifully, so I don't even miss a keyboard on the device. It's great the way that it is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blazerunner
Full Member


Joined: 15 Nov 2017
Posts: 218

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Conway wrote:


I just watched a video where a guy set up his Force to multisample automatically. He set the number of velocity layers, key interval, loop, and sample duration, then went off to make coffee while the Force multisampled a VST sound.

I'm not worried about what kind of sounds are in it, since I like to sample a lot of my own things. My Kronos sample memory is quite full, so having 2 terabytes to record into the Force, to play with however I like, is very enticing.


Congratz on the joining Team Force!

yeah that's the beauty of Akai's simplicity. It's like I said before Akai Listens...they actually listen. Everything that makes sampling easier they did just for you, me, and everybody else trying to avoid a sampling headache...and the result is beautiful. That Auto chop feature is beautiful. It's going to be amazing when you have 61 keys auto chop your samples too.

On the Force you just lay it on the pads however you want it. I will admit to you that nobody ever seems to buy the Force on purpose. Every Force user seems to have owned an MPC first and then says "Akai Force... what's this? I'll give it a try" Not really expecting to fall in love with it... then they get the Force and they forget they own an MPC. It's those pads man it's the pads. Something happens and you fall head over heels. Once you realize you have 64 active pads instead of just 16 at once you feel like some sort of sampling God.

First time I got my Force and realized that I raised the Force above my head and yelled "I Have the Power!!!!!!". It was an amazing moment. Laughing

but seriously the Force is fun. I like to use it with a keyboard because I love using the keys on the Keygroup programs.

For the guys that don't know Akai has different types of sampling programs. You have samples that are just single shot samples you play them like you would any .wav when you strike a pad and then you have samples where they play like instruments the "keygroups programs". They're not midi so you can edit them as .wavs but they can be layered and stacked to sound like real instruments. Keygroups are the best because they're meant to be played like the .pgm's in the Kronos. So if you have a synth or a piano a bass, or whatever instrument you can play it just as you would on a keyboard like the Kronos. This is what's going to make the MPC 61 a dangerous keyboard to be reckoned with.

I personally can't wait for the MPC 61. I've loved sampling workstations since the Triton but the Kronos makes everything feel like a book report. The MPC 61 is going to make sampling fun again and that's what they real hype behind it is. People are looking forward to a modern sampling keyboard with an easy interface that they can fall in love with.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Conway
Approved Merchant
Approved Merchant


Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 2394
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koekepan wrote:
this whole thread should be a gigantic wake-up call to KORG


I'm sure they are taking notes. Just to be clear, the Kronos will remain my centerpiece for a while. I'm just adding new playmates. Wink

There are things it does that few things can. I fancy the wavesequencing and MOD-7 features, even if it is just to make a slide trombone like this one:





Quote:
As far as disc streaming is concerned, I anticipate that it will come soon for the MPC line but the Force has it today. I don't happen to use it much because I have a different approach to composition, but it's really nice for long textures underneath a piece, such as recordings of waves crashing or something like that.


Yes, I believe it will hit the MPC products at some point. I bought the Force for what it can do, today, which includes all that pad functionality. I did like that the Live 2 had a long lasting battery, but I'll take that pad grid since I'm usually near a plug.

Part of my gushing over the disk streaming is that I'm going to be recording audio tracks and clips with my Kronos and other synths as most of the sound sources. It will still be my cinematic style, but I'll be recording many programs with their full effects' compliment. I'll still be using the Kronos' sequencer a lot, but am looking forward to clip launching and what the Force's time stretching and audio modulations can do.



Quote:
I'm not too excited by a common complaint; that people want different time signatures. I'm pretty good at arithmetic, so that doesn't worry me.


Some Youtuber, named Leo said this:

Quote:
"The Force and MPCs DO let you choose time signatures! ...you just have to tap "insert bars" and it'll let you choose anything, WITH numerators up to 32, which beats the 16 on Maschine. I prefer to delete all the bars or just scroll back to "start at bar: 1 finish at bar: 1" and THEN add your odd time signature bars. Clunky, but so useful"




blazerunner wrote:

Congratz on the joining Team Force!


Thank you!

Quote:
I will admit to you that nobody ever seems to buy the Force on purpose. Every Force user seems to have owned an MPC first and then says "Akai Force... what's this? I'll give it a try" Not really expecting to fall in love with it... then they get the Force and they forget they own an MPC. It's those pads man it's the pads. Something happens and you fall head over heels. Once you realize you have 64 active pads instead of just 16 at once you feel like some sort of sampling God.


Can't wait!


Quote:
I personally can't wait for the MPC 61. I've loved sampling workstations since the Triton but the Kronos makes everything feel like a book report. The MPC 61 is going to make sampling fun again and that's what they real hype behind it is. People are looking forward to a modern sampling keyboard with an easy interface that they can fall in love with.



That MPC 61 (with 25 virtual instruments) is going to be a monster, as is Kronos (fewer instruments, but at least 5 of them that make up for greater numbers by how extremely deep they are). Though you have to do a lot of "book reports", on the latter, it does amazing things, like being able to patch MIDI or audio tracks through the AL-1 (via cable out/in), MOD-7, the MS-20, or vocoders, etc. You can assign sysex or CC patterns to RPPR keys, for expression triggers. I realize that the Force has macros and LFOs that can be assigned to many things. My point is that these things can be pretty bottomless, doing things that many people can only imagine. It's going to be a fun ride!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Pedja
Platinum Member


Joined: 20 Sep 2013
Posts: 529

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the end which one is better to bay AKAI MPC 2 Live or Force, from beginners perspective?
Thanks for all.
_________________
Pedja
______________________________________
Kronos X73, Kurzweil PC3LE8, ASM Hydrasynth
My music: https://soundcloud.com/pedjak-1
_______________________________________
My CG Galleries: http://www.submit.manscostyle.com/artist_ver.php?id_art=59&&id_cuadro=502
http://www.museumofcomputerart.com/autogallery2013/autogallery_kalajdzijevic/
http://moca.virtual.museum/autogallery2015/autogallery_kalajdzijevic/
http://moca.virtual.museum/autogallery2017/autogallery_kalajdzijevic/
http://moca.virtual.museum/dablog/dablog02.htm
http://moca.virtual.museum/autogallery2019/autogallery_kalajdzijevic/
https://www.saatchiart.com/PedjaK
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Koekepan
Platinum Member


Joined: 27 Sep 2016
Posts: 552

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pedja wrote:
In the end which one is better to bay AKAI MPC 2 Live or Force, from beginners perspective?
Thanks for all.


I'd say that it largely depends on what you want to do.

If you are a beatmaker, and you want to stack up loops and create songs based on that sort of structure, then the MPC is your sort of thing. It's also a pretty good match for a lot of EDM and related things. This isn't to say that you couldn't use it for a sonata, but then you'd probably use a single pattern that you extend and treat as a linear sequence.

If you want to use your platform as an arranger for complex songs, combining sequences from multiple tracks with overlaid linear sequences, the Force is your baby.

Neither of them is really an MTR, nor a virtual modular, but they will cheerfully dump multiple channels to an MTR, and use CV/Gate to drive an outboard modular, so again it really comes down to your preferred workflow.

Edited to add: if you're going to perform in front of an audience, the Live is where I'd look first, partly because of the battery. The Force is a studio powerhouse.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blazerunner
Full Member


Joined: 15 Nov 2017
Posts: 218

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pedja wrote:
In the end which one is better to bay AKAI MPC 2 Live or Force, from beginners perspective?
Thanks for all.


I've owned them all except for the Force. I will add my 2cents in that they are all the same. They use the same software, same interface and share the same updates. The Force does everything the MPC's do but it's different in that it uses "Clips" which is just a fancy sequencer. The trade off is that you don't get to use Akai's MPC Software Daw (which is FL meets Protools).

All of them have a learning curve but nothing that is super difficult for anyone to grasp or pickup. Out of them All I'd say people complain a bit about the Force because things that you can access easier on the MPC's are a bit harder to access on the Force or "harder" as in not as obvious. You would have to press shift and then another button to access a menu to get to an option that would just be a button on the front panel of an MPC. You can't go wrong with any of them and if you know how to use one you know how to use all the rest.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korg Forums Forum Index -> Korg Kronos All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group