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cvanselman
Joined: 23 Dec 2016
Posts: 7
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 Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:08 am Post subject: Akai MPC keys 61 note |
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So I've just seen that Aksi have taken the Kronos and taken it up another step. It has a number of sound plug ins like Kronos. It has sequencer, drumn pads. It matches or beats Kronos in nearly every aspect except.... it's only a 61 note machine but you can have your choice if external keyboard and have a two key set up.
Yourube.com/watch?v=wnrZdr6ewzE |
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timg11
Senior Member
Joined: 04 Jun 2008
Posts: 459
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure if the link above is malicious, but in any case it is wrong. Should be:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnrZdr6ewzE
For me, the key feature of the Kronos is Smooth Sound Transition. I skipped through the video, and didn't see any mention of a similar feature. Can you confirm that the MPC does or does not support something like SST, where you can move through any arbitrary sequence of sounds in a setlist without any sounds cutting out or having audible artifacts?
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Kronos2 73, Presonus StudioLive, Cakewalk / Sonar Platinum, Windows 10 |
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average_male
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 278
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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I have considered this board but have faith that Korg will come out with something much better, plus having a 61 board is a deal breaker (but I am guessing they may come out with an 88 version?). Wish they went with a bigger LCD display.
Video is very well made, though. Thanks for sharing. |
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Sharp
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 18197
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| timg11 wrote: | | Can you confirm that the MPC does or does not support something like SST |
The MPC has nothing like that. If you hold a note and change sound, the sound gets cut off. Makes no difference if it's a KeyGroup sample or a Plugin. |
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blazerunner
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2017
Posts: 277
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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I'm going to bask in the glory of the MPC Keys. I knew this day would come. I mentioned that Akai was on the heels of the Kronos for years. I often compared what the MPC had to what the Kronos lacked and how a Keyboard version could really shake things up... and it seemed like Akai realized that too. Although Akai could care less about Korg. Akai excels at being Akai and that's taking thier products and giving people more of what they want.
I look at the new MPC Keys are pretty much everything I wish the a modern Kronos would be but the reality is nobody does what they do better than Akai. This is just a really good Keyboard that offers something for everyone and then some and it doesn't have a steep learning curve either. It's made for you to sit down and enjoy it.
The Kronos is an outdated idea from an era of time that we have all moved on from. It served its purpose but the problem is Korg never updated it and just quietly pulled the wheels out from under it.
It's another year and another NAMM with nothing yet again from Korg. Even if Korg did realize a next gen Korg Workstations aren't exactly what people want these days. An overly complex expensive keyboard with dead support isn't attractive in today's market. I hope this is a huge wake up call for Korg and they get their stuff together and for once just give people what they want again. |
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average_male
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 278
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:30 am Post subject: |
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so you like that semi-weighted keyboard feel?
| blazerunner wrote: | I'm going to bask in the glory of the MPC Keys. I knew this day would come. I mentioned that Akai was on the heels of the Kronos for years. I often compared what the MPC had to what the Kronos lacked and how a Keyboard version could really shake things up... and it seemed like Akai realized that too. Although Akai could care less about Korg. Akai excels at being Akai and that's taking thier products and giving people more of what they want.
I look at the new MPC Keys are pretty much everything I wish the a modern Kronos would be but the reality is nobody does what they do better than Akai. This is just a really good Keyboard that offers something for everyone and then some and it doesn't have a steep learning curve either. It's made for you to sit down and enjoy it.
The Kronos is an outdated idea from an era of time that we have all moved on from. It served its purpose but the problem is Korg never updated it and just quietly pulled the wheels out from under it.
It's another year and another NAMM with nothing yet again from Korg. Even if Korg did realize a next gen Korg Workstations aren't exactly what people want these days. An overly complex expensive keyboard with dead support isn't attractive in today's market. I hope this is a huge wake up call for Korg and they get their stuff together and for once just give people what they want again. |
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SeedyLee
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 1370
Location: Perth, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| blazerunner wrote: | I'm going to bask in the glory of the MPC Keys. I knew this day would come. I mentioned that Akai was on the heels of the Kronos for years. I often compared what the MPC had to what the Kronos lacked and how a Keyboard version could really shake things up... and it seemed like Akai realized that too. Although Akai could care less about Korg. Akai excels at being Akai and that's taking thier products and giving people more of what they want.
I look at the new MPC Keys are pretty much everything I wish the a modern Kronos would be but the reality is nobody does what they do better than Akai. This is just a really good Keyboard that offers something for everyone and then some and it doesn't have a steep learning curve either. It's made for you to sit down and enjoy it.
The Kronos is an outdated idea from an era of time that we have all moved on from. It served its purpose but the problem is Korg never updated it and just quietly pulled the wheels out from under it.
It's another year and another NAMM with nothing yet again from Korg. Even if Korg did realize a next gen Korg Workstations aren't exactly what people want these days. An overly complex expensive keyboard with dead support isn't attractive in today's market. I hope this is a huge wake up call for Korg and they get their stuff together and for once just give people what they want again. |
The MPC is a lot of style over substance. Whilst the UI is certainly
More modern than that of the Kronos, the sound engines are *very* basic. One LFO in the sampler, for example. The effects are also primitive.
The sampler is definitely more intuitive than the sampler in the Kronos though. And I like the pattern-based sequencer. But try doing something as simple as creating a song with a tempo change, or having audio tracks that can play for the entire duration of a song, and get back to me. Even things like having a song fade out are impossible on the MPC.
Sounds all have to be loaded from disk any time they are used - you can’t instantly recall a patch. You can’t reorder effects after they have been added to a track.
It’s good for what it is, and there’s certainly things that it does better than the Kronos, but I’m sad to say that even after 15 years of the Kronos and OASYS, there’s still many areas the MPC still doesn’t even come close.
One thing I did think was really nifty on the MPC though was the integration with the desktop software. That was a killer feature, IMHO - but quite buggy with lots of crashes.
_________________
Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 2 88, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW16G, Tascam DP008ex, Zoom H6, Organelle, Roland J6 & JU06A
Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Kronos 1 61, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova, MPC One |
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blazerunner
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2017
Posts: 277
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| average_male wrote: | so you like that semi-weighted keyboard feel?
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Well for me I'd say yes. It's not a killer for me. Weighted keys are cool if you're strictly playing piano's but when's the last time anyone wanted weighted keys on a Moog or a DSI/Sequential. They throw you off when you're not staying with the Piano's. |
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blazerunner
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2017
Posts: 277
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| SeedyLee wrote: |
The MPC is a lot of style over substance. Whilst the UI is certainly
More modern than that of the Kronos, the sound engines are *very* basic. One LFO in the sampler, for example. The effects are also primitive.
The sampler is definitely more intuitive than the sampler in the Kronos though. And I like the pattern-based sequencer. But try doing something as simple as creating a song with a tempo change, or having audio tracks that can play for the entire duration of a song, and get back to me. Even things like having a song fade out are impossible on the MPC.
Sounds all have to be loaded from disk any time they are used - you can’t instantly recall a patch. You can’t reorder effects after they have been added to a track.
It’s good for what it is, and there’s certainly things that it does better than the Kronos, but I’m sad to say that even after 15 years of the Kronos and OASYS, there’s still many areas the MPC still doesn’t even come close.
One thing I did think was really nifty on the MPC though was the integration with the desktop software. That was a killer feature, IMHO - but quite buggy with lots of crashes. |
I'm going to have to say no to all that. The MPC is not style over substance. The MPC is noting but substance with style sprinkled on top. I don't know what you mean by sounds loading from disk any time you need to use them. You have to load the sounds you want but you can access them at any time.
On the Force each track you can load with whatever sounds you want, Drums, synths, midi, etc. All you do is press the button for the track and there the sounds you want are. Access the library and swapping out sounds is pretty simple. It's the same thing on the KRonos. You have to load the patches you want to play in the Kronos as well. You can instantly recall a patch once you've saved it and made it a program. You can reorder your effects however you want. You're not stuck with what you do.
The dive is deep on the MPC. I can't go into details of how you do all these things but they can be done. The MPC is all about customization.
I'm not aware of the LFO thing. I know you can "Stack" effects with different LFO's in them to go crazy.
I'm just going to say that it doesn't sound like you've spent very much seat time with the new MPC's. I don't mean that to be rude or anything but everything you're mentioning they actually are capable of doing.
Like yeah dude you can change the tempo, time signature of a song. BPM or whatever. That's what Song Mode is for that didn't exists when people would whine about that now it does.
Yeah dude you can play audio for the entire duration of the song. They have built in guitar amps, and XLR jacks, and vocal software just so you can do stuff like that and if you can't you probably need to add a bigger hard drive to it. Don't worry though Akai made that easy for you also they put a door on the bottom for easy access. You don't have to take it apart like some other device we all know.
But you're attacking the MPC for stuff the Kronos can't even do.
Primitive Effects? Where is the Ducker on the Kronos? Have you ever tried to add a ducking effect to your tracks. You have to set this to that, activate this, do that, then this, then do that. On the MPC it's just one effect you select and it's DONE!
Have you ever tried to edit an audio file in the Krono Sequencer? Just try it. Really just try it. We all know that the Kronos sequencer is such a giant PITA like only 30% of the people on this forum even bother trying to use it. I bet if we made a poll right now and asked "Do you record with the Kronos Sequencer?" like 4 out of 100 people would say yes and 2 of the votes would be from me with both hands raised.
Matter of fact I'll make it simpler... show me how to save a sample to the Kronos and make it load on start without having to go through 3 different menu's and save features. I mean come on man ... You have to go into global settings and add files to make sure your samples load. That's some really bugged programming dude. This isn't the 80's why an I having to do Dos type stuff like that.
I absolutely hate the Sampler on the Kronos. They should have just left it off there and I'm not alone on that. Come on even if you do get familiar with it you still have to waste time loading per sample per key. There's no programing to just drag and drop samples to keys or pads?... and you're trying to flame the MPC???? The King of Samplers? Absolute blasphemy!
I run into so many people with that same complaint. It's like the number one complaint about the Kronos the sampler.
Don't be scared change is good. Embrace the MPC 61. It's the future.
I'm not going to make any excuses for Korg and this elderly Keyboard of theirs called the Kronos. They had years to update this thing and they never bothered.
What you see people using these days are modern MPC's in their studios because it can take on so many task with or without a computer. I was trying to tell you guys before that people make complete songs with just the MPC and a Keyboard controller alone. That's what the Korg Workstations used to do for people but they're not buying them. What you don't see are the Korg Workstations anymore and that's Korg's fault. They've fallen out of popularity because of the complexity to use them, the costs to performance, the lack of DAW support, and the lack of modern updates. People don't want Korg Workstations anymore they're too outdated.
Korg needs to take Cue's from Roland and where they're taking their Fantom series. A simpler less complicated keyboard with DAW support and access to Roland Cloud sounds.
I'm not going to defend the Kronos anymore for the same reason I won't defend a 1992 Toyota Camry over a 2022 Camry. The Kronos is just out of date man. It's out of loop and it's out of date. It's not your fault... it's not my fault... it's Korg's fault for leaving us with this decade old keyboard that barely had any support and now Akai has come along and soaked up the last bit of Sunshine the Kronos had.
No young fresh music maker is going to choose a Nautilus over an MPC Keys. |
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Sharp
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 18197
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | No young fresh music maker is going to choose a Nautilus over an MPC Keys |
Only if they are un-informed and buy online before trying in a shop.
The MPC Key 61 has many pitfalls that make it completely useless for anyone who plays live, and frustrating for anyone working in the studio.
Take Fabric XL and simply switch between the factory sounds. There’s always a long delay between selecting a sound and being able to actually play the keys. This can be as long as 5 seconds. Even way longer if you are using the Favourites banks and a different plug-in has to load first before loading the preset.
On stage live, this is a complete deal breaker for any musician. In the studio, simply flipping though sounds becomes painfully slow as it has to load everything on demand sound by sound as you go and it preloads nothing. Soon as you go to the next sound, the last one is unloaded from RAM, meaning switching back requires the sound to be loaded from disk all over again as well as all the delays it takes.
While Fabric XL is very slow, some of the plugins are faster at switching sounds, but this is still a major pitfall that makes the instrument useless for live use on stange, and simply annoying in the studio. Waiting constantly for things to load gets old pretty quick.
The Plug-ins are also extremely basic compared to any real synth. If you want to get down and dirty to design new sounds and get the most out of the sound engine, then it’s like swimming in the kids side of the pool. There’s no depth. Everything is very basic.
Many are not even new Synth Engines. They are simply Key-Group patches with a slick GUI.
Talking about Key-Groups, you can’t even add them to Favourites at any point. This is so stupid.
MPC’s have their strengths in Sampling, Auto Sampling and the Sequencer. No doubt about that. Which is why people buy them for making beats. So respect where it’s due. They are awesome at that.
But as a synth, they are pretty weak.
Last edited by Sharp on Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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blazerunner
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2017
Posts: 277
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Sharp wrote: | | Quote: | | No young fresh music maker is going to choose a Nautilus over an MPC Keys |
Only if they are informed and buy online before trying in a shop.
The MPC Key 61 has many pitfalls that make it completely useless for anyone who plays live, and frustrating for anyone working in the studio.
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It just came out like how would you know that? 
You guys are killing me here you're killing me. It's like you guys are stuck in 90's (am I in an episode of Portlandia?) This isn't the MPC 2000XL. They have streamlined these machines for live play. People use them all the time to run party's,dj sets, raves and live gigs. It has features that are all on there. There's a whole line of programs built into the MPC/Force. It even has CV if you want to do live synth performances.
The whole "just for beats thing" the MPC left like a decade ago. When studio producers started taking them outside the studio to perform with them live in front of crowds. You guys have no idea how much hell raising the MPC fan base made towards Akai to get them to evolve the modern MPC's into doing what they want and need. They even went to NAMM just to yell at them in their booth. Like nobody is playing anymore when it comes to gear. As a manufacturer you have to give people what they're asking for and Korg hasn't been doing that at all on the workstation side.
I don't understand how you can say it's frustrating for the studio when it integrates with pretty much every major software and even has stems? The Kronos doesn't integrate with anything it doesn't have any software that alone makes it outdated and cumbersome to adapt to a modern studio. It has features that are limited to only the keyboard itself and can't translate to software. That does not happen with the MPC's.
Older producers we've learned to accept the flaws in equipment and work around it. We were used to using equipment that didn't do everything that we wanted and even though it was a pita we figured out how to get it to do what we wanted. Older producers are more accepting of gear with limitations and are accustom to tolerating the headaches. Newer generation producers are not dealing with that. They want their gear to do exactly what they want it to do NOW not several Keyboard or Sampler renditions later. They want it now. They're not going to wait a decade plus for a new version of a keyboard to fix everything (who has a lifespan to waste on that).
They're very vocal about problems and they chase down these companies to let them know...and when these companies don't listen or ignore them (like Korg does us). They don't buy their products or support their company and their reputation suffers as a result. Products have been booted off of market just because of that and you know what that's wonderful.
It's giving the consumer the power for once to let these gear companies know that we are not going to accept what they decide to throw out on the shelves. Make what were asking for and make it do the things we need. Before these companies didn't listen and now they are. Akai and Roland, Moog, Dave Smith Instruments(R.I.P.) they're listening. They're making gear that people want and adding features and updates. Who ever thought Moog would have VST's for their gear and patch libraries for customers? It's so cool. People are more vocal about what they want and companies are finally listening. The MPC's are nothing but a labor of love that's what makes them so fun and versatile to use.
There's one thing about the MPC's that you guys don't understand what makes it so far above the Kronos. I'm going to just give one example because the MPC's are a deep dive. Korg advertises it's 9 engines soon as you turn it on. Then when it loads you're staring at a "set list". I have no use for a setlist btw. I'm not going gigging with the boys. It's just a useless screen to me that makes me frown. Why not just put a global menu there where I can access what I want to use? Or customize it to what I want to access when I turn on my Kronos?
What is important to me is to access those 9 engines so I can start producing music and just how do I get to them. You already know you have to do all this cryptic stuff to find them, load them and then start making your patch or whatever and then save it and triple check that it actually worked. It's annoying. Why is it that I can't start up the Kronos and that first page just be all 9 engines displayed for me as icons that I can press and immediately go into a sound bank just for them with one of the options in that sound bank being "would you like to create a new patch?" Why is that so hard for Korg to have done that? Even their features are cryptic to access.
On the MPC you load it up and the first thing it shows you are your projects you're working on. You hit a "Menu" button and you're looking at all the MPC program features displayed for you. All the engines. You just press which one you want and you're in. It's very simple no cryptic anything. Why could Korg in 11 years not have figured out how to do that? Unnecessary complexity of the Kronos is what makes it a turnoff to modern producers. It makes everything more complicated than it needs to be because it's programming is so outdated. You guys need to accept that. The Kronos is older than 11 years. It's a kickdown version of the Korg korg Oasys. That's why it's so dang out of date. It's a 17yo keyboard system that has never truly been updated.
The other previous gentleman was talking about the MPC having 1 LFO. I don't know what that gentleman was honestly talking about. This is where we're going to talk about technology moving forward.
The MPC has always been about assigning "Effects per pad" even in the 90's. You assigned your effects per pad. Not globally unless you want too but per pad. The new MPC's took that idea and allow you to assign multiple effects per pad. Multiple LFO's whatever you need but "Per pad". That would be like if you could take Korg's 16 slot effects and assign them Per Key with each key having a different effect. That is 2022 technology. That's were we're at in today's age. The Kronos is no where near that.
I get it man. I own a Kronos too but I'm not disregarding new tech or looking to throw rocks at it. I'm buying it, I'm learning it, and I'm going to add it to my arsenal. I spent 16 years with just a Triton and Only a Triton as my one and only Keyboard. I'm done with the "this is all I'm gonna use let me defend it till death" logic. Screw that. Give me some new gear I'm going to learn it and I'm going to use it. I used to be one of those guys getting blue in the face if you mentioned Motif this or Phantom that or Ensoniq this... Alesis that... I didn't want to hear it. If it wasn't Korg it wasn't the way. I had nothing but Korg gear and you know what... all I did was miss out on all the other awesome gear that was being introduced to the world. Never again will I put myself in a corner and be glued to something that has expired. That is not the way of a musician.
All I learned in that time was how to be a Triton specialist and you know what who even cares. It's an old Keyboard no one even uses or talks about anymore it's obsolete. So there was no point to that level of Korg devotion. I see that same disease feasting on you guys here today. Just stop. Embrace what's new and grow with it. If the MPC Keys is offering new avenues the Kronos doesn't have then pick one up and have fun with it.
Your Kronos will still be right there. You can still do stuff with it. I own like 14 keyboards right now (and that's after selling some) no longer the days of just that one Triton but my Triton is still there. I've moved on and decided to focus on feeding my sound quest instead of sticking to one brand or piece of gear for everything. Screw doing that! I am about having fun with music these days and I've learned that lesson the hard way.
I am never again going to defend a sinking ship when I can easily just bail out and jump on a boat that's sailing just fine. If Korg wants to keep pushing dated products like the Kronos or Nautilus they can have fun. I'm moving on. If Korg drops a new workstation with everything we complained about as a community fixed and updated with our ideas I will be inline to buy it. Right now... the Kronos is no longer the way it's had it's time but it has expired and that's my ruling for any gear company. You keep pushing out old ideas in new skin I'm just going to pass on your offerings (ahem Nord).
But you guys seriously need to take a step back and look at what you write. You guys are being intimidated by a Keyboard that's only offering you a new and easier way to have fun making music. Come on man! Get with it! |
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Sharp
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 18197
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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Hi blazerunner.
| Quote: | | It just came out like how would you know that? |
Simply put, I have an MPC X with all the plug-ins installed.
The MPC Keys 61 is just an MPC with a Keybed and 2GB of RAM more for user samples.
It still runs off the same OS, same motherboard, same CPU, and has all the same plug-ins any existing MPC user can access right now.
There is no difference in performance or features. Excluding all the extra controls and connectivity my MPC X has over the MPC Keys.
| Quote: | | I don't understand how you can say it's frustrating for the studio when it integrates with pretty much every major software and even has stems? |
I’m not sure what you mean by every major software? I’m not aware of anything even remotely like that. The Desktop MPC software and it’s integration with the MPC hardware is great. Even some ableton live integration, but beyond that, I’m not sure what you are referring to that any normal midi controller can’t be setup to do.
Anyway... In stand-alone it’s simply unacceptable that something like Fabric XL will take randomly between 1 to 5 seconds after selecting a sound to be playable. As I said in my last post.
In the studio where delays are not so important, I can only say that I found it frustrating simply browsing the presets as I have to constantly wait for them to load each and every time, sound by sound.
I'm being very fair here too as I've see it take way longer when using Favourites, as much as 10 seconds for a sound to be available.
| Quote: | | There's one thing about the MPC's that you guys don't understand what makes it so far above the Kronos. I'm going to just give one example because the MPC's are a deep dive. Korg advertises it's 9 engines soon as you turn it on. Then when it loads you're staring at a "set list". I have no use for a setlist btw. I'm not going gigging with the boys. It's just a useless screen to me that makes me frown. Why not just put a global menu there where I can access what I want to use? Or customize it to what I want to access when I turn on my Kronos? |
I understand exactly what MPC and KRONOS can do, and yes, KRONOS can do this.
On the very first page in GLOBAL mode there is an option called “power on mode”. You can use this to get get the KRONOS to boot every time to the last page you had open before you turned off the power.
With regards to the 9 engines on the KRONOS, they are always available across all 16 midi channels with no loading times and smooth transitioning between sounds, unlike the MPC which has a limit of 8 regardless in total per project and delays between switching sounds.
| Quote: | | Come on man! Get with it. |
As I am an MPC user who knows exactly what the hardware can do, I’m very much so “with it” as to what’s going on here. I don’t see this as anything nearly as exciting as you do simply because I know what a real Synth like KRONOS can do, and AKAI won’t progress this at anywhere near the speed that will matter to me to care any time soon.
It’s 2022 and the new offering is already largely obsolete and a fish out of water. AKAI have simply repackaged an existing 5 year old MPC in a Keyboard Body. It's the same hardware, the same exact hardware, same CPU, same everything.
It will take far more than that to bring a Synth of meaning to the market. |
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