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Is there any chance to see Korg Kronos successor?
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kronoSphere
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Derek the Wavestate VSTi is so great !
My Kronos is now eleven years old and if, one of these dats, it fails and if Korg does not build a follow-up to the Kronos, I would have to buy The Nautilus (His touch screen interface for recording in the sequencer screen is really such a very good idea)
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Derek Cook
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the Wavestate VST.

As a Wavestate owner, I got the VST at the special price, and probably now do not really need the hardware version. Certainly if Korg ever do release the Wavestate SE, I no longer have the GAS for it.
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Koekepan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisDuncan wrote:
I agree, there's a massive business for pad based music and the Ableton Live type workflow. In fact, it's my perception that this dominates many pop music genres.

Creating beat / loop / sample / push button type songs is no less a form of music than anything else. And yet, in many ways it seems to be a very different paradigm from playing a traditional musical instrument, e.g. piano.


Speaking strictly for myself, I went to the Akai Professional Force, but I do very little beat and loop stuff unless it's for a commission. Instead I use it as a studio master and arrangement tool behind psychedelic and dark ambient - not exactly what one expects, but precisely because it's such a flexible workstation device. I think that pegging it as a beatmaker's tool is a failure of marketing and a general misapprehension. In fact, I've been known to plug my Krome into it as a USB controller and also a sound source. They play together well.
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average_male
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisDuncan wrote:
I just figured we were a bunch of friends having conversations about our common interests.

Kinda like going to the race track and betting on the horses, but not actually spending the money.

Sounds like your horse of choice goes by the name of, "Korg".

"And it's Korg for the win by three horse lengths!"
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ChrisDuncan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derek Cook wrote:
As I said above, I am kinda glad that my 2014 investment in a beast of an instrument that I bet few of us have fully scratched the full potential of, is still the current Korg best.

Yeah, one of the reasons I bought it as a novice keyboard guy was my perception that it would be a long time before I outgrew it, and that's certainly been the case. For my personal needs, I have a hard time imagining what they'd have to do in a subsequent flagship to make it worth me buying it.
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ChrisDuncan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koekepan wrote:
Speaking strictly for myself, I went to the Akai Professional Force, but I do very little beat and loop stuff unless it's for a commission. Instead I use it as a studio master and arrangement tool behind psychedelic and dark ambient - not exactly what one expects, but precisely because it's such a flexible workstation device. I think that pegging it as a beatmaker's tool is a failure of marketing and a general misapprehension. In fact, I've been known to plug my Krome into it as a USB controller and also a sound source. They play together well.

I've always been impressed with this type of gear because of all the cool things it does, and have on a few occasions had to resist GAS, reminding myself that given my current hardware / software setup it would be a solution in search of a problem.

I've also seen videos of people doing absolutely virtuoso performances on them (think the static-haired girl playing Tom and Jerry in the three finger solo thread). With a piano, there are just 12 notes in a very distinctive arrangement of keys, so it's easy to know where an F# is and at what octave with just a glance. Because of this, I find it all the more impressive because even color coded, these pad workstations are still just a grid of a hundred or more identical buttons. So I'm not surprised you do psychedelic and dark ambient with it. An instrument is an instrument.
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Chris Duncan
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ChrisDuncan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

average_male wrote:
ChrisDuncan wrote:
I just figured we were a bunch of friends having conversations about our common interests.

Kinda like going to the race track and betting on the horses, but not actually spending the money.

Sounds like your horse of choice goes by the name of, "Korg".

"And it's Korg for the win by three horse lengths!"

True dat!

Of course, there's also the matter of the Prophet 6 that I just realized I haven't added to my sig yet. Because it's always, "just one more and then I'll stop..."
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Chris Duncan
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ChrisDuncan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kronoSphere wrote:
Yes Derek the Wavestate VSTi is so great !
My Kronos is now eleven years old and if, one of these dats, it fails and if Korg does not build a follow-up to the Kronos, I would have to buy The Nautilus (His touch screen interface for recording in the sequencer screen is really such a very good idea)

Speaking of synths, I'm curious why you guys added a Wavestate, hardware or software notwithstanding. Even on Korg's website they speak of having its foundation in the Kronos.

I got the Prophet because I wanted to play with subtractive synthesis, but every time I try to edit patches in the small and dense UI of the Kronos I find it too tedious to enjoy. So I wanted something with knobs and buttons. Is that the appeal of the Wavestate?
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Chris Duncan
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blazerunner
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koekepan wrote:

Speaking strictly for myself, I went to the Akai Professional Force, but I do very little beat and loop stuff unless it's for a commission. Instead I use it as a studio master and arrangement tool behind psychedelic and dark ambient - not exactly what one expects, but precisely because it's such a flexible workstation device. I think that pegging it as a beatmaker's tool is a failure of marketing and a general misapprehension. In fact, I've been known to plug my Krome into it as a USB controller and also a sound source. They play together well.


I've been trying to tell people that on here for years. The Akai Force and the MPC's picked up where the Kronos fell off and Akai only keeps adding more usable features to it. Regardless of what the gear is it's use is going to come down to you. I know the MPC's get the "Hip Hop" producer mark on them but I come from the 90's era of the MPC when Akai wasn't marketing it as a device for making beats but instead a sampler for professional musicians and that's how I've personally always viewed them as a sequential midi and audio sampling instrument.

I use my original MPC2000XL and Force for drums,synths,sample mangling and filtering. The Force has had a lot of synths added to it and with a keyboard attached its just like using any VST.

but all that aside it's the sample management,features and layout that makes me look at the Kronos's Sampler in wonderment as to how could Korg have made something so irritating that people avoid using it and not think to go back and fix or update it but continue to leave users with something so out of date and cumbersome? The Sampler on the Kronos is a major failure. There's so many other devices and software programs out there that do what it does minus the headache that it's not even a feature worth mentioning. If someone told me they used a Kronos for sampling I would have to ask them Why? When there's so many more convenient and better options out there.

It's not as though it's just one aspect of the sampler on the Kronos it's every aspect of the Sampler on the Kronos. From assigning sounds to keys to editing them, to saving them etc. etc. The essential things that should be a breeze to do are a major task to do and that's what turns people away from utilizing the sampler. It's the most unfriendly sampler I've ever used in my life and I actually took the time to learn how to use it. I could sample on the Kronos but I prefer not to because I can accomplish the same task with more accessible features and faster convenience on the Akai Force.

The sampling features on Akai blow anything the Kronos has Sample wise not just out the water but off the planet. There is no reason to ever hit the sampling button on the Kronos unless you have to. The whole thing is though that it's not a hardware issue with the sampler it's a software issue that Korg could actually reprogram to streamline and make more convenient for the people that own the Kronos Keyboards but they honestly don't care.

I only mention this at the endless amount of complaints and comments I've read and come across over the years from other users trying to decipher the sampler. I know there are many talented and great guys on here who are masters at the Kronos sampler but you know I squat 500lbs at the gym. I don't even sweat or grunt or anything. I make it look easy. I just grab the weight and do my reps and then I'm done.

Then I look around and notice others struggling just to squat 200lbs and I think to myself... you know the only reason I'm able to squat 500lbs and make it look simple is because I've done it for so long and struggled till I could reach that weight. It's the same with the Kronos sampler. It's a breeze for you because you put in the work and time to master its technical difficulty but is it worth it when someone else can just use an easier device to get the same results in less time with less risk (like the smith machine)?

Korg has this thing with making things difficult and leaving users up the creek to figure it out instead of listening,adapting and implementing change and the Kronos reputation of being a complex keyboard is what steered more people towards other gear instead of picking up a workstation. IF the Kronos was more user friendly it would have a better reputation and probably still be selling. You'd have a flooded market of 3rd party Expansions for it and everything. A lot of life would be breathed into this Keyboard but that's just not the case. People looked at it, saw how overly complex it was to use,looked at the price tag and then went and purchased something else.

Mark my words even though there are plenty of Kronos owners here, there and wherever people just use the keyboard up to what they're capable of understanding and just ignore the other features they don't use because they're too hard to deal with learning. The Sequencer, The Sampler, The Karma system, Drum tracks, anyone of those 9 engines...etc. etc. It's a capable Keyboard but it's a bag of confusion with a manual as thick as a stack of phone books. People aren't in to "learning curves" anymore. That's a thing of the 80's and 90's. People want simplicity,convenience and results.

"Simplicity" is something that Korg needs to truly work on in order to make the next generation workstation successful. Nothing Korg makes to succeed the Kronos is going to do well unless it's as convenient and easy to understand as the DAWS and Plugins people use instead of Workstations.

Before you could argue that the learning curve on the Kronos was worth it and had a nice payoff but unless you just want to be really good at playing an outdated Keyboard it's not worth the headache. There's something about the Kronos that I've never experienced and that's FUN. I've never had FUN playing the Kronos. I've had lots of "Frustration" but never any FUN.

I have fun playing my moogs,my DSI's, my Rolands, my Akais, my Nord etc. etc. but I've never had fun playing the Kronos. It's always "how do I get it to do this... how do I get it to do that...what just happened? what now? I hope that saved properly." but never just silence and a smile on my face. Every session is a battle with this Keyboard and personally I'm tired of going to war with my equipment.
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Derek Cook
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisDuncan wrote:
kronoSphere wrote:
Yes Derek the Wavestate VSTi is so great !
My Kronos is now eleven years old and if, one of these dats, it fails and if Korg does not build a follow-up to the Kronos, I would have to buy The Nautilus (His touch screen interface for recording in the sequencer screen is really such a very good idea)

Speaking of synths, I'm curious why you guys added a Wavestate, hardware or software notwithstanding. Even on Korg's website they speak of having its foundation in the Kronos.

I got the Prophet because I wanted to play with subtractive synthesis, but every time I try to edit patches in the small and dense UI of the Kronos I find it too tedious to enjoy. So I wanted something with knobs and buttons. Is that the appeal of the Wavestate?


The Wave sequencing in the Wavestate is quite different to the original Wavestation and Kronos HD1 Wave Sequencing.

The Sound On Sound review of the Wavestate gives a good summary of the differences if you are interested.
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Koekepan
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To pile on to what blazerunner said above, the simplicity of operation (relatively speaking) is one reason why I enjoy my Kross so much.

Does it have the best sounds? The greatest flexibility? The most features? No, no, and definitely not.

But I turn it on, and I can lay down a track just about as fast as I can grab a few patches and hit RECORD. It is lightweight, the handle makes it easy to carry around, and it runs on batteries. It could have been simpler, but KORG just dropped the ball there, and the Kronos makes it show. The Force is a much more complex beast, yet much easier to get to do things, and so it wins.

User experience counts!
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McHale
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blazerunner wrote:
I've been trying to tell people that on here for years. The Akai Force and the MPC's picked up where the Kronos fell off and Akai only keeps adding more usable features to it.


A buddy just replaced his Kronos in his live rig with a Force and has been selling me on the idea. I've already dedicated the Kronos and the rest of my gear to the studio. My future live rig will be keyboard controllers and something that plays plugins, whether it's a Force or a PC.

Personally I love all the features in the Kronos (except Karma... I'd have rather had dual arps). There are a few things the Kronos lacks but all in all I'm happy with the feature set and sounds and would gladly purchase a Force-like box with a Nautilus inside. If Korg made a Force-like box that had the Nautilus *AND* could import industry standard VST3's they'd really have something unique.

-Mc
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ChrisDuncan
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derek Cook wrote:
The Sound On Sound review of the Wavestate gives a good summary of the differences if you are interested.

That looks like a really in depth article, but I'm afraid to read it because then I'll probably want to buy one.
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Pedja
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few questions for @blazerunner.
I am in serious dilemma to buy Akai MPC Key 61. What I saw on youtube is really impressive, if everything is correct?
I'm not someone who samples, nor am I someone who wants to use an instrument to record multiple tracks at all costs. What is primary for me is the quality of the sounds, the ease of selection, the combination of multiple sounds and the rhythm section in combination with the selected sounds and the quality of the keybads. The question I want to ask you is: Is it worth buying that instrument when I already have Kronos X73, Kurzweil PC3LE8, Hydrasynth and Arturia Keylab mk2 61 in my arsenal?
How good or bad is the AKAI keyboard (kaybeds), compared to the instruments listed (especially the Hydrasynth and Arturia)?
How good do acoustic pianos really sound?
Would it be necessary to connect one of these instruments as a controller (from the keybeds aspect)?
Thank you in advance, and all the best.
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ITguy54
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To answer the original question, no. Korg is only interested in electronic instruments built around the Raspberry Pi processor. So that leaves the Kronos/OASYS in the dustbin of history. Look elsewhere for Kronos alternatives.
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