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pa 1000 Review

 
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Alzy



Joined: 20 Mar 2023
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 4:32 pm    Post subject: pa 1000 Review Reply with quote

i'm sure this will upset many pa1000 user but i just need to go my 2 cents on the China made machine .ive been a korg user since the Korg Poly 6 , their first programable synth ..then with the workstations , i used a Pa50 , Pa800 & now the Pa3x .. i missed out on the 4x . and the 5x i just cant afford right now .. as my 3x ages & are no longer updated , I looked into the pa1000 ,since I was extremely happy with my pa800 for 10 yrs I figured what the heck .. even though they were on back order everywhere , i found one on a website / store in upstate NY for instant delivery.. i was very excited when it arrived ..did not realize disappointment would follow so quickly .. after I turned it on ,the first chord I hit using a piano sound , sent me into shock ..the keys felt like a toy & the piano sound was terrible .i tried a couple of other piano sounds ( which I need a strong piano sound in my music ) still the same .. started listening to styles & they all seem weak .. then i noticed that the FAVORITE section was gone .thats where I've stored 500 of my originals & cover tunes , very important to me . so to say i was disappointed is an understatement .so i packed it up & sent it back..so if you are just starting this keyboard will be a fine keyboard for your needs .but going backwards from a 3x it is too much of a drop off in quality of what the pa1000 puts out .. so my pa3x is in the repair shop replaces some keys getting an overhaul & i'll stick with it until i can afford the 5x .. so for all the negativity ,it just my 2 cents worth of an opinion
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: pa 1000 Review Reply with quote

Alzy wrote:
i'm sure this will upset many pa1000 user ...i was disappointed is an understatement. so i packed it up & sent it back..


I bought a used Pa1000 (Type B, SN>40000, HDMI connector), but was not disappointed with it, nor was I in shock. In my subjective opinion, the Pa1000 doesn't sound any worse than the Pa800, because the quality of the samples used is not worse than that of the Pa3x/800, so that disappointment is more likely due to a bad sound setting in the factory settings.

For a comparison with a Pa3x one would have to use the same audio system.
*
The fact that the Pa1000 is only designed by Korg Italy (Osimo) but is produced in China is not a useful indication of the quality of a product, but is due to a prejudice that has long been unjustified and has been refuted many times.

The keyboard also can be played with piano sounds, but of course not as sensitively as on hammer mechanics keyboards - but this also applies to the Pa3x/800.

The drop in quality you noticed also is not applicable to the Favorites area.

The Pa1000 provides an amount of 1,152 styles for direct access in the user area - and without having to reload any user styles. With the Pa3x you only have access to 600 user styles (3 x 40 user styles, 12 x 40 favorite styles).

What you call "Favorite styles" simply rename it in Direct User banks as "Favorite", where you additionally can create your own sets of Keyboard Sets, Styles, Pads, Voice or Guitar Presets without being forced to load that data separately.
*
Even if you're disappointed with the Pa1000, I think you were a little hasty in packing it up and sending it back.
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taichi
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Alzy

The sound of “out of the box” Korgs` can be transformed beyond recognition with the excellent editing features. Do that and the 700, 1000 and 4x are great at home and on stage. They rock. Trust me they are fabulous that is why I have all three. Best money that I ever spent.

However Alzy you still may have made the correct decision for a few reasons.

1 Updates stopped long ago, there will be no more.

2 Korg support is none existent, they have abandoned us.

3 Pa 700, 1000 and 4x are obsolete, why purchase an obsolete keyboard ?

4 Spare parts. Can Korg play any more dirty tricks on us ? Yes they can by making spare parts unavailable and / or very expensive.

Alzy I treasure my three Pas`. Would I go out and purchase them tomorrow ? No, they are obsolete. The word `OBSOLETE` leaves a bad taste. It`s best that you move on if you want to enjoy your music for the next few years. I feel very lucky that Pa 700, 1000 and 4x came along at the right time for me.

Take care
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duby2
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:22 pm    Post subject: time to move Reply with quote

If my PA 1000 and PA 4X die out on me it will be hard to get parts for, and it will take two or three months if not longer to get it repaired. Too long of a time to wait I work four days a week that'll put me out of business.

The new PA 5X it's not ready for stage, unless you're just jamming and doing promo demos to sell the keyboard then it's fine and if you wanna play music in your living room it's a great machine cause no demand on it. It does not load and set list styles easy enough from the old machine without it freezing up or malfunctioning it's just a headache then..

I would then look for a cheap PA 1000 or changeover..
Most of the styles I use are generic basic bread and butter, in most of these styles are in all arranger keyboards nowadays some do sound better than others I admit that,,

so for me it would either be the Yamaha psr-sx900 or medeli akx10 ...
The psr-sx900 at $2299.00 or the Medeli akx10 at $779.00
.
Both keyboards are extremely close to each other very little difference besides the price..
So for me it's a no brainer More bang for your buck you get more for your dollar on the medeli akx10.. And you could buy two of them and still have money leftover..

that's just my opinion..

I want the Pa5x but can not wait 5 or 6 years for updates to make as good a the pa4x .. you can not do a job with a pa5x . just Demo..
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Piotr1967
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Joined: 19 Mar 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I completely disagree with this opinion of the PA1000. Even the PA700 sounds much better than the PA800 (I had a PA2X Pro with XMS expansion). The price of the PA1000 also proves its class. Evidently the author of the topic did not set it up correctly. The PA1000 sounds only slightly worse than the PA4X
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 7:09 pm    Post subject: Pa1000 review (Pa700/800/3x/4x) - how Aftertouch will work Reply with quote

Piotr1967 wrote:
I completely disagree with this opinion of the PA1000. Even the PA700 sounds much better than the PA800 .... The price of the PA1000 also proves its class. ....


Hello Piotr1967,
judging a sound seems to be subjective - but I would dispute that the price of a keyboard could prove the sound quality to be "class" or that the Pa700 would sound better than the Pa800.

However, for the Pa700, as well as the Pa800 and the Pa1000 it is essential
1. the existing features of the respective model
2. the settings of sound and effect parameters
3. the audio systems used for sound output

Pa800/1000/3x have aftertouch keyboards, which can be used to create numerous sound effects via key pressure - that is not possible with the Pa700.

Since no sounds of the Pa800 are pre-programmed with aftertouch at the factory, they can be changed with the built-in tools and parameters. Unfortunately, also the Pa4x/1000 were only delivered with poor aftertouch sounds from the factory and the DNC sounds are mainly used there. This variety of DNC sounds can be used for special effects (doits, riff up/down, glissando up/down), but can hardly be used otherwise. Of course, this requires some editing work to prepare sounds in such a way that aftertouch can be used reasonably and nuanced for songs (for controlling vibrato, modulation, Lesley, filter, volume, tremolo and effects).

Aftertouch really is well suited for modulation options for wind instruments, synths, strings, organs, but also for switching effects (Lesley) and can also be easily dosed with the Pa800/1000 keyboards and never comparable to controls with joystick.
*
Keyboard players who use less aftertouch might not miss it. But if you have prepared a few wind instruments or strings in such a way that there notes or chords are more or less emphasized individually with aftertouch, you will hardly think that a Pa700 could sound much better than a Pa800.

Korg's Pa series IMHO has never been suitable out-of-the-box to use reasonably good-sounding sounds for spontaneous music-making with factory settings - and this also applies to Pa800/1000/3x/4x, where the factory settings are not taken into account, that these keyboards are well equipped with aftertouch. It takes a certain amount of time to adjust these instruments so that they also sound like their technical qualities.
*
Musicians with Yamaha's DX7 (and all subsequent generations of FM OP keyboards and home organs) have not only mastered sound design with FM synthesis, but have also used aftertouch for great effects. Innovative and musically excellent sound material can be found in numerous songs and albums (Stevie Wonder, Depeche Mode, Brian Eno, Whitney Houston, Spliff, Silent Circle etc), but fourty years later even today keyboard players should know the benefit and the difference between a keyboard with and without aftertouch.

Unfortunately, Korg does not support this in its sound presets, because otherwise you should also find corresponding sounds in the factory settings to point out the effectiveness of aftertouch!
*
That the OP did not set his Pa1000 correctly is to be assumed. If you really think even the Pa700 sounds much better than the Pa800 I think it is assumed you also did not it with it - especially you never activated and used its Aftertouch parameters. But as mentioned at the beginning - judging a sound is something subjective!
***
Infos ABOUT MODULATIONS BY AT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGLqL0Ps514
--> script autom. translated

With the help of AFTERTOUCH it is possible to change a keyboards sound after the note has been struck, for example to impress a vibrato on it. AFTERTOUCH expands the possibilities of musical expression considerably. But in order to create a nice vibrato with the help of AFTERTOUCH, it is important to understand how CHANNELS AFTERTOUCH works.

Originally AT came from the synthesizers.
These had purely electronic sound generation and the AT came with the intention of to breathe more life into the sound, because in the beginning these sounds were of course very static.
Let's take this mini-classic here, for example - if I press harder now, I can also give this sound a modulation, like with a trumpet or with a wind instrument.
So modulation here means that a vibrato is just added.
All this wasn't possible with the first synthesizers, so they sounded a bit static.
The concept is that you hit the note and then press it again after you hit it.
Such modulations are obtained when the button is pressed further.
Basically, an AT with many sounds works like a piano.
The example is of course not appropriate, because the piano has no vibrato whatsoever, unlike instruments where something happens after you hit it, like guitar, bass, synthesizer sounds or even the sounds of distorted guitars -i.e. whenever a vibrato comes into play.

Speaking of vibrato - you can of course also create this effect with the joystick - with the modulation I get practically the same effect as if I hit and hold down.

By now you've probably noticed that this is sometimes difficult to control. I'll give you a few tips as to what could be causing this.
One must first get to know and understand the basic concept of AT, why certain things work and others don't.

There is a single sensor under an AT keyboard and no matter where I play - whether in the treble or bass or mid-range - this sensor picks up a controller reading.
That is, this value affects the modulation of the sound like with the joystick or a slider across the entire width of the keyboard.
This is how you can imagine it with the AT - as soon as you press down you get its effect like with a slider or the joystick.

If you hit it now - for example relatively hard - it can of course happen that you hit the highest point right at the beginning controller value of the AT is generated - and if you then press it again, nothing changes, of course. For example, if you play fortissimo and press immediately, you can press whatever you want and nothing happens.
AT can then only be activated if you let go of something after hitting it hard and then press it again.

Many think you just have to wait long enough and then you can do it again. But that doesn't work, it always depends on the current AT value.
That means with a fortissimo touch I can wait as long as I want, because then nothing happens when you push it back.
Only when I relieve the load for a long time - i.e. go back to the basic position, so to speak, only then can I trigger the AT effect again - as often as I like.

You can try it and you can practice it directly. If you play here and work a bit with your wrist, you can really consciously trigger the AT effect.

That's the theory - in practice it's a bit more complicated with our keyboards, because we have the automatic accompaniment and that means as soon as the accompaniment for the left hand is switched on, the left hand play chords and the melody played on the right.
However, as explained earlier, we have a single sensor for the entire keyboard.
This means that a chord played hard with the left hand without letting up will not allow AT modulation for the notes played with the right hand.

But that's a bit unusual and if you're still playing with the automatic accompaniment, you'll sometimes wonder why you can't get aftertouch with your right hand.
In this case you have played the automatic accompaniment with the left hand with too strong a forte attack. The attack does not play a role for the chord recognition, but if you keep pressing with the left hand and don't relax, you cause the highest AT value and thus do not achieve an AT with the right hand.
It would be important to take your left hand away after the chord change and possibly leave a pause before starting again so that the AT effect can be triggered again.

So you should try it once - step by step and check whether you hit it too hard or the left hand has not relieved after the attack. Then just relieve and start again and then it should work.

So you always have to be aware with the left hand that you also trigger the AT effect for the right hand.
So with all sounds where modulation is to happen - eg for guitars - ease the pressure a little and then press it down again to alternately fade in and out the modulation.

I'll show you the sounds I've used here again - so that was the Concert guitar as the first one Sound in the guitar area that offers itself there. So just hit a note - no matter what volume - then relieve and then I can trigger this wonderful effect - and that's the key to triggering this effect.
*
We used the so-called Channels-AT here. This means that there is one controller per midi channel that can trigger this AT effect. The result obviously depends on the sound properties. Then there is another midi event: the so-called Polyphonic Aftertouch. You have a single controller for each individual tone - every single button has it for a single controller and that is relatively expensive.

Most of today's instruments have Channel-AT - if you play with automatic accompaniment, you have to think that the left hand is also crucial for triggering the effect, because the sensor for the entire keyboard is active.
So when playing with automatic accompaniment, always keep in mind that you also relieve the left hand for AT of the right hand......etc.
**
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- siebenhirter, austria -

Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
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duby2
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:36 pm    Post subject: After touch Reply with quote

All what you say it's true..

So when you're in the split mode why don't Korg just turn off the aftertouch on the left hand side of the keyboard ,(c4 or c3 or let the user decide ) in the split mode.

Why learn to play different when they could fix it in the software...
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Piotr1967
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 6:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Pa1000 review (Pa700/800/3x/4x) - how Aftertouch will wo Reply with quote

siebenhirter wrote:

Of course, I agree that the evaluation of sound is subjective, however, you only referred to AT which yes has an impact on the sound but a small one. The final sound is more determined by the number and quality of samples, the number of FX processors, and the dynamics and selectivity of the sound in the arrangement. In the overall opinion of musicians, the PA1000 sounds better than the PA3X. It is based on a newer sound engine. The whole thing is spoiled only by the Chinese plastic. In truth, the PA1000 in a different enclosure could be called the PA4X LE. Used copies of the PA700 cost only a little cheaper than the basic PA3X and much more than the PA2X Pro. At least these are the prices here in Poland
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: After touch Reply with quote

duby2 wrote:
..So when you're in the split mode why don't Korg just turn off the aftertouch on the left hand side of the keyboard ,(c4 or c3 or let the user decide ) in the split mode.

Why learn to play different when they could fix it in the software...


Hello Duby2,
I don't think that's a good idea.

To take into account AT (aftertouch) IN SPLITMODE, there are no advantages WITH TURN-OFF AT, because splitmode is only a position for the style-players chord-recognition .

However, Key Range of the Upper voices (with top key, bottom key) allow settings, that do not have to match the position of the split.

In that case the controller values of AT would have to be read individually from the channel data of the upper tracks - as is possible and known as POLYPHONIC AFTERTOUCH with few syntesizer. For more than 40 years, however, this has not proven to be practical for keyboards with automatic accompanying. For the same reason, there are only a few synthesizers with polyphonic AT the market.

A detection of AT over the entire keyboard area is not only technically easy to implement. It is also much more practical in the use with the style player, because AT only affects those four tracks (Upper 1,2,3 and Lower) for which the function was activated.

Example with three different settings:

- A style is played with Upper1 (Woodwind) and Lower/Backing (Slow Voice), AT is activated for Upper1, AT-Curve Medium is activated
- Woodwind: AMP modulation intensity of all OSC greatly increased, AMS = Channel AfterTouch
- Slow voice: AMP modulation intensity of all OSC greatly reduced (negative values), AMS = Channel AfterTouch

With this setting (AT only for Upper1 activated)
- If the volume of Upper1 is increased with AT, Lower does not change through AT
- The volume of Upper1 can also be increased by pressure of left hand - Lower does not change this

With this setting (AT activated for Upper1 and Lower)
- with AT volume of Upper1 is increased while volume of Lower is reduced/faded out bei pressures

With this setting (ATonly activated for Lower)
- with AT volume of Lower is reduced, Upper1 does not change this

With all that three settings, it does not matter whether AT is triggered by the pressure with a left or right hand, or with both. Therefor a fear "to Learn to Play Different" therefore is unfounded.
If Korg woul turn off AT for Left Hand Side, it would be much more cumbersome to play with practical settings!

Next and also important for settings with AT:
With the PA1000 it should also be noted that when using without split (Chordscan = Lower or Upper or Lower + Upper), only the upper sounds can be played across the entire keyboard area, but with a Turn-off-AT the triggers using Pressure with the left hand would no longer be possible.

But as AT today is realised I can use the three upper sounds on different keyboard zones with the style player, and I can also select
- which of the three upper sounds should be used for chord recognition (selected with Chordscan and storable)
- which of the three upper sounds should be modulated with AT (selected by activating AT in the menu ensemble) !!

PS: And it is much easier to realize as documented in "Infos ABOUT MODULATIONS BY AT" - simply try AT with sounds edited/prepared for usage with pressure.
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Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de


Last edited by siebenhirter on Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:52 pm    Post subject: Pa1000 review (Pa700/800/3x/4x) - how Aftertouch will work Reply with quote

Piotr1967 wrote:
.. the overall opinion of musicians, the PA1000 sounds better than the PA3X. It is based on a newer sound engine. ..


Hello Piotr1967,
last posting you mentioned "PA700 sounds much better than the PA800" now you wrote the opinion of musicians "Pa1000 sounds better than the PA3x" and that is based on a newer soundengine - I can't do much with that.

With the Pa3x/800 one could still speak of a sound engine (DSP TG1 MB87M4080...), which was located as individual ICs on the circuit boards. Pa4x/1000/700 are featured with SoCs (System on one Chip) of the "Sitara AM5718" from Texas Instruments. The usual terms "processor", "CPU" or "sound engine" no longer apply to SoC, because these systems work with processors that are embedded with many other integrated system components and many input/output interfaces.

Whether the Pa1000's integrated DSP processor (C66x) delivers a higher sound quality is questionable, so the sound of Korg's Pa-Arranger IMHO mainly depends on the care and skill with which its settings were programmed - and of course on the features with which the model series is equipped.

Comparing two models, one with (Pa800) and one without (Pa700) aftertouch keybed, is relatively meaningless.

What some might define and hear as clarity of sound is probably due to the greater headroom resulting from the Pa1000's increased circuit voltage power supply (19 volts) - but this can change immediately once the outputs of two compared devices are connected and played through the same audio system.
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Piotr1967
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Joined: 19 Mar 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: Pa1000 review (Pa700/800/3x/4x) - how Aftertouch will wo Reply with quote

[quote="siebenhirter"]
Hello Piotr1967,
last posting you mentioned "PA700 sounds much better than the PA800" now you wrote the opinion of musicians "Pa1000 sounds better than the PA3x" and that is based on a newer soundengine - I can't do much with that. /quote]

Hello siebenhirter,
You don't have to do anything about it. I just expressed the opinion of most musicians at least from music groups on FB. I run a large music group myself and I know the opinions of my users. I also hear how the music presented by them sounds, and this is true whether on the PA700 or PA1000. For a musician, the technical intricacies of processors don't matter much. What matters is the sound and the capabilities of the operating system. Korg has many advantages, but also many disadvantages and shortcomings. E.g. in terms of insert dsp Yamaha is ahead of it by 20 years! Some useful solutions in the operating system Korg could also learn from Roland. I've been playing piano and synthesizers professionally for 40 years, I've had more than 200 of them, starting with early analogs, so don't explain to me how to define the sound and usability of an instrument. With all due respect to you Smile

You have a cool and interesting website https://www.elmarherz.de/ Congratulations
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 1:56 pm    Post subject: Pa1000 review (Pa700/800/3x/4x) - how Aftertouch will work Reply with quote

Piotr1967 wrote:
.. just expressed the opinion of most musicians ..I run a large music group myself and I know the opinions of my users... for a musician, the technical intricacies of processors don't matter much ...


Hello Piotr1967,
I'm not disputing about years of musical knowledge and experience, nor am I disputing the opinion of most known musicians - it has nothing to do with the OP's thread. Also I'm not interested in the advantages or disadvantages of different operating systems from different brands or their insert DSPs etc.

OP initialised "Pa1000 review" and meant its sound is terrible. I thougt he were a little hasty in packing it up and sending it back. You meant Pa700 sounds much better than the PA800 and Pa1000 sounds better than the PA3x - and that I don't think that can be justified objectively. Same would be just as irrelevant to claim: Pa800 sounds better than Pa700, Pa3x sounds better than Pa3x etc.

Let us agree that the evaluation of sound is subjective!
*
Even if musicians don't care about the technical intricacies of processors, the Pa800 is equipped with aftertouch keybed and Pa700 does not have. These are different categories of instruments that can then no longer be compared with one another. Especially not if the sounds are prepared accordingly for the possible applications with aftertouch.

The out-of-the-box sounds of the Pa800 - but also the Pa3x/4x/1000 - require post-processing for the practical use of AT, because this was hardly taken into account at the factory. Although there are sounds with doits, riff up/down, glissando up/down through AT control, the possible sound spectrum of AT control is not represented with that DNC sounds.

For the practical, variable use of sounds with AfterTouch controlling - as can be found in recordings since 1980 - PA800/3x/1000/4x also are equipped, without limit of AT effects for some DNC sounds. It may be that the knowledge of how to use AT has atrophied in the meantime, because a sound comparison between Pa800 and Pa700 is possible - but IMHO pointless.

Exeption are Pa-arrangers without AT keybed but with its possibility to edit/prepare its sounds oscillators with AMS-Aftertouch parameters - with them for playing it is necessary to use less comfortable external AT controllers.

PS: Thank you for your congratulations to a cool and interesting website https://www.elmarherz.de. I am not the owner of this HP, but it is Mr Elmar Herz and for me it is the best creator for terrific styles of my Pa-arrangers - I will forward your congratulations to him - thank you!
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Piotr1967
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have and haven't played the PA700. I have a PA1000. I base my opinion on the opinions of other colleagues in music groups on FB. The PA1000, in my opinion, sounds very good, especially on a stage sound system. If Korg ever releases the NEXT update again and thus unlocks the memory for user samples then the instrument will "live" for many years to come. I have a slightly broader perspective on the usability of the operating system from my experience with instruments from other companies (Tyros 1,2,4, Roland G70 and many workstation synthesizers like Kronos, Motif, Fantom). There are no perfect instruments. How you use a particular instrument is also an important factor. For some it will be an auto-accompaniment, for others a sequencer and sound module. I use the PA1000 more in the latter mode. Therefore, the operating memory, sound module and DSP blocks are the most important issue for me. Korg performs well in this mode, but it is known that it also has limitations. Only the PA5X has a heavily developed DSP block. It is of great importance to the overall mix in the arrangement
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