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ChrisDuncan
Senior Member
Joined: 17 May 2018
Posts: 389
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 Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2023 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| kday wrote: | | But the next to release the next big flagship most likely will be Korg, now that Yamaha released theirs. |
That seems logical to me.
However, neither Roland nor Yamaha have released the next big flagship in many years. What both have done recently is to offer an incremental update to a flagship that's more than a few years old. Yamaha's M is still just a Montage with software updates (excluding the poly aftertouch 88 keybed).
If Korg were to follow along those lines then a Kronos 3 that's basically just a major OS update to the Kronos 2 would be reasonable. It wouldn't be a new flagship even if it was new hardware like the M, just an incremental update to what we already have. Nonetheless, I'm sure that would make a lot of people happy.
_________________
Studio: Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU | CMC AI, QC
Keyboard Station: Kronos 2 88 | Fantom 7 | JV 2080 | Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Focusrite 18i20 | CMC TP
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Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth |
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kday
Full Member
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2023 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ChrisDuncan wrote: | | kday wrote: | | But the next to release the next big flagship most likely will be Korg, now that Yamaha released theirs. |
That seems logical to me.
However, neither Roland nor Yamaha have released the next big flagship in many years. What both have done recently is to offer an incremental update to a flagship that's more than a few years old. Yamaha's M is still just a Montage with software updates (excluding the poly aftertouch 88 keybed).
If Korg were to follow along those lines then a Kronos 3 that's basically just a major OS update to the Kronos 2 would be reasonable. It wouldn't be a new flagship even if it was new hardware like the M, just an incremental update to what we already have. Nonetheless, I'm sure that would make a lot of people happy. |
All workstations follow the incremental lines of their previous workstations. Roland released the FANTOM which is their flagship workstation a couple years ago. Plus smaller iterations of it afterwards.
Yamaha released the Montage, which is their flagship workstation now, also with smaller iterations.
Even though the Montage offered a smaller incremental update, the new one is still considered more of a standard workstation update with hardware update and sound engine addition plus more. Korg already offered a bunch of incremental updates on the Kronos and can't do anymore. Plus they offered a downgrade workstation in the Nautilus. So their next Kronos 3 should be within 2-3 years from now possibly even late 2024 or 2025. Korg is not in a hurry to release a Kronos successor and could easily wait another 2-3 due to the success of the Kronos 2.
People have to understand that next flagships workstations from all the main keyboard companies will be incremental updates, as they always have been. The Kronos 3 will be an incremental update with a better more simpler User Interface screen display with bigger buttons, which will be the strongest selling point. It will have more sounds than the current 2 model. It will have more memory and HD storage and a slightly rearranged keyboard surface possibly with some buttons missing directing people possibly to the UI touch screen, or possibly with more added buttons signaling a hardware upgrade considering that's the new trend for workstations now with Yamaha M and Roland FANTOM having added more panel buttons. Don't expect a total revamp miracle. But it could come in what looks like an incremental update with more bells and whistles. |
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average_male
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 278
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2023 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| kday wrote: | | …The Kronos 3 will be an incremental update with a better more simpler User Interface screen display with bigger buttons, which will be the strongest selling point. |
You know you just described the Nautilus, right? |
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kday
Full Member
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2023 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| average_male wrote: | | kday wrote: | | …The Kronos 3 will be an incremental update with a better more simpler User Interface screen display with bigger buttons, which will be the strongest selling point. |
You know you just described the Nautilus, right? |
The Nautilus was a downgrade, not an upgrade or successor.
It's not considered a Kronos successor or Kronos 3, but a fill in downgrade workstation like most keyboard companies debut until they're ready to release their flagship workstation that succeeds their previous flagship workstation.
These three main companies bread and butter in the music department are full fledged flagship workstation keyboards. They been making them for decades and they've been largely selling making profits. And everybody should already know this having seen consecutive workstations without end since building workstations have begin from the main three. |
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fomalhaut
Junior Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 85
Location: Madrid, Spain
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2023 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="ChrisDuncan"] | kday wrote: |
However, neither Roland nor Yamaha have released the next big flagship in many years. What both have done recently is to offer an incremental update to a flagship that's more than a few years old. Yamaha's M is still just a Montage with software updates (excluding the poly aftertouch 88 keybed).
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That seems to suggest that the market conditions do not favor disruptive breakthroughs in music workstation territory, like what the OASYS was in its day.
If I were to give a reason why this happens is that the gap in terms of sheer power between DAWs and workstations is so big in 2023 that the public for a full-computer-inside workstation like the Kronos & Nautilus is too small for such a big investment in terms of R&D and as a result the money of the Rolands, Yamahas and Korgs of the world is better put into computer related stuff that can generate recurring revenue in the form of subscriptions.
As evidences supporting this, see Rolands' ZenCore integration with Roland Cloud, or Montage's lack of a sequencer. To me both features are indicating that Roland and Yamaha market research do foresee a near future where the main use case for the flagship workstation is accompanied by a computer running a DAW.
Of course I am not implying that the DAWless workstation workflow does not make sense, or that gigging musicians are going to be necessarily carrying laptops or iPads, only that there will be less potential customers in that situation. |
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ITguy54
Full Member
Joined: 22 Mar 2015
Posts: 248
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2023 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| kday wrote: | | average_male wrote: | | kday wrote: | | …The Kronos 3 will be an incremental update with a better more simpler User Interface screen display with bigger buttons, which will be the strongest selling point. |
You know you just described the Nautilus, right? |
The Nautilus was a downgrade, not an upgrade or successor.
It's not considered a Kronos successor or Kronos 3, but a fill in downgrade workstation like most keyboard companies debut until they're ready to release their flagship workstation that succeeds their previous flagship workstation.
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It’s so cute to see people who still have hope. Inevitably reality will slap the smiles off their faces. How long until the reality hits them is the big question. This vain hope for a Kronos 3 has already gone on for years, just like it once did for an OASYS 2. It could go on for more years yet. 10 years from now, the only thing left will be the ashes of bitterness, as they join the rest of us.
Last edited by ITguy54 on Sun Nov 05, 2023 9:01 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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kronoSphere
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2012
Posts: 698
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2023 7:58 am Post subject: |
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my Kronos is still alive and well. Yes. But for how much longer???... .. .
Then, if there is only the Nautilus to replace it, I will buy the Nautilus.
The only workstation that literally enchanted me years ago was Roland's Fantom G8, because the Fantom G had an absolutely revolutionary way of managing effects in its sequencer.
A form of genius Roland seems to have lost
_________________
trees are going fast.
https://www.lairdeparis.fr
Current Gear : Kronos 88 / Seaboard Rise / Triton Extreme / Sequoia / Motif Rack XS / TC Helicon voicelive rack /Awave 11 / Audio & VSTi plug-ins connected /wide touchscreen / iPad Pro 512. |
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Pedja
Platinum Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2013
Posts: 576
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:19 am Post subject: |
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I think people are more and more attracted to synthesizers, like Expressive E Osmose. They have achieved great success. I think it will be the same in the future. Of course, it cannot replace WS, but there is less and less need for it. Check out the Nord Stage 4, some added makeup and a new price tag of $5000. The new Yamaha m8 is another class, and there are more novelties, but again a terrible price. I am aware of the fact that there are people who, as soon as something new comes out, buy it regardless of the price. Watched almost a video on YouTube, I didn't remember the man's name, the persona has two Fantoms 8 and two Montages, the second of which is an m8, of course there is also a Nautilus and....
That target group like this, is so small, and a strategy cannot be built on it.
Thank you for your attention.
_________________
Pedja
______________________________________
Kronos X73, Kurzweil PC3LE8, ASM Hydrasynth, Arturia Keylab mk2 61, AKAI MPC Key 61
My music: https://soundcloud.com/pedjak-1
_______________________________________
My CG Galleries:
http://www.museumofcomputerart.com/autogallery2013/autogallery_kalajdzijevic/
http://moca.virtual.museum/autogallery2015/autogallery_kalajdzijevic/
http://moca.virtual.museum/autogallery2017/autogallery_kalajdzijevic/
http://moca.virtual.museum/dablog/dablog02.htm
http://moca.virtual.museum/autogallery2019/autogallery_kalajdzijevic/
https://www.saatchiart.com/PedjaK |
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kday
Full Member
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:17 am Post subject: |
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[quote="fomalhaut"] | ChrisDuncan wrote: | | kday wrote: |
However, neither Roland nor Yamaha have released the next big flagship in many years. What both have done recently is to offer an incremental update to a flagship that's more than a few years old. Yamaha's M is still just a Montage with software updates (excluding the poly aftertouch 88 keybed).
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That seems to suggest that the market conditions do not favor disruptive breakthroughs in music workstation territory, like what the OASYS was in its day.
If I were to give a reason why this happens is that the gap in terms of sheer power between DAWs and workstations is so big in 2023 that the public for a full-computer-inside workstation like the Kronos & Nautilus is too small for such a big investment in terms of R&D and as a result the money of the Rolands, Yamahas and Korgs of the world is better put into computer related stuff that can generate recurring revenue in the form of subscriptions.
As evidences supporting this, see Rolands' ZenCore integration with Roland Cloud, or Montage's lack of a sequencer. To me both features are indicating that Roland and Yamaha market research do foresee a near future where the main use case for the flagship workstation is accompanied by a computer running a DAW.
Of course I am not implying that the DAWless workstation workflow does not make sense, or that gigging musicians are going to be necessarily carrying laptops or iPads, only that there will be less potential customers in that situation. |
The market favors innovative workstation keyboards, and that's what the big three workstation makers make their money from.
Companies are gonna continue to make all kinds of other keyboards whether they be expensive or inexpensive, and that has nothing to do with if they're gonna make their next workstation.
Workstations are here to stay. Sorry to break some people's hearts, but they aint going anywhere and will continue to be made until the end of time from Korg, Roland and Yamaha and others. People tend to make up their own timelines for when a company should release their next workstation and become pessimistic about a company's goals.
These companies have no other choice but to make a flagship workstation or lose their workstation revenue that is still lucrative. Lot of people get confused on computers also, as if computers are supposed to dictate the workstation market. People need workstations so they can't go away no matter what a computer can do. But one thing a computer can't do is be carried around with a band and operate like a keyboard without problems. So people will never adopt computers and controllers to replace the keyboard or keyboard workstation. |
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yoshi88
Full Member
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 133
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2023 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Would there be a market for the RH3 88 note keybed with Poly after touch?
Yamaha seems to think it is a worthy investment in their flagship model. This is one option I want in my board. I like the stand alone workstation for simplicity. When the next Kronos gets released may it have a similar but 'enhanced" interface to the Kronos2. I will buy it! We are comfortable with the Korg software environment and need a stable upgrade!
_________________
Kronos 2 88
M3 61 expanded
Triton Extreme 88 & 61
Triton PRO X 88
Trinity V3 61
O1WFD 61
T3 61
M1 61
03R |
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KK
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2016
Posts: 1422
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2023 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| The RH3 88 design is not suitable for poly AT. If ever, Korg would instead use a variation of the new action found in their recent poly AT controller and extend it to 88 keys. |
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kday
Full Member
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2023 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| ITguy54 wrote: | | kday wrote: | | average_male wrote: | | kday wrote: | | …The Kronos 3 will be an incremental update with a better more simpler User Interface screen display with bigger buttons, which will be the strongest selling point. |
You know you just described the Nautilus, right? |
The Nautilus was a downgrade, not an upgrade or successor.
It's not considered a Kronos successor or Kronos 3, but a fill in downgrade workstation like most keyboard companies debut until they're ready to release their flagship workstation that succeeds their previous flagship workstation.
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It’s so cute to see people who still have hope. Inevitably reality will slap the smiles off their faces. How long until the reality hits them is the big question. This vain hope for a Kronos 3 has already gone on for years, just like it once did for an OASYS 2. It could go on for more years yet. 10 years from now, the only thing left will be the ashes of bitterness, as they join the rest of us. |
It's sad that you allow pessimism and despair and mental breakdown to overtake reality as if you missed decades of Korg's keyboard workstation evolution to have to come up with a personal theory that Korg is gonna stop their workstation production line of building profitable keyboard workstations because they didn't come out with the Kronos 3 at your personal timetable.
New Workstations from all three main companies are here to stay forever. Now, the determination of a workstation may be debated by the consumers and some companies like maybe Yamaha. Who substituted a real workstation for just a synthesizer with a sequencer. And then wish to change the meaning of workstation from Keyboard Synth/ROMpler, Sequencer, Sampler. To just ROMpler/Sequencer to sell a slew of keyboards with less features and escape the just Synth label due to potential sales.
But even Yamaha I feel may someday come back to the full blown workstation title with a ROMpler/Sequencer/Sampler workstation when they exhausted this synthesizer series to breathe new life into a long in the tooth Montage line. It's all timing and considering the huge success of the Kronos keyboards, it would be foolish to actually think they would discontinue their biggest selling current keyboard line for no reason. |
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jick
Full Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2011
Posts: 195
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| yoshi88 wrote: | Would there be a market for the RH3 88 note keybed with Poly after touch?
Yamaha seems to think it is a worthy investment in their flagship model. This is one option I want in my board. I like the stand alone workstation for simplicity. When the next Kronos gets released may it have a similar but 'enhanced" interface to the Kronos2. I will buy it! We are comfortable with the Korg software environment and need a stable upgrade! |
Yamaha already had the keybed for the M8x already lying on the shelf, as this post explains in depth:
https://sandsoftwaresound.net/montage-m8x-key-notes/
I'm 99 percent sure I'll order a M8x in the coming weeks. Played a m7, but not the new keybed. My Kronos 73 V1 needs replacement and it's an utter disappointment that Korg didn't release anything really new Kronos related since 2014. Its even more mind blowing that the new Montage m still can't do some stuff that my Kronos can, for example layers with fading split points (soft split). Anyway. I've lost patience with Korg and Yamaha probably will have my 5k money.
_________________
Rick
Youtube! |
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ITguy54
Full Member
Joined: 22 Mar 2015
Posts: 248
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2023 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| kday wrote: | | ITguy54 wrote: | | kday wrote: | | average_male wrote: | | kday wrote: | | …The Kronos 3 will be an incremental update with a better more simpler User Interface screen display with bigger buttons, which will be the strongest selling point. |
You know you just described the Nautilus, right? |
The Nautilus was a downgrade, not an upgrade or successor.
It's not considered a Kronos successor or Kronos 3, but a fill in downgrade workstation like most keyboard companies debut until they're ready to release their flagship workstation that succeeds their previous flagship workstation.
|
It’s so cute to see people who still have hope. Inevitably reality will slap the smiles off their faces. How long until the reality hits them is the big question. This vain hope for a Kronos 3 has already gone on for years, just like it once did for an OASYS 2. It could go on for more years yet. 10 years from now, the only thing left will be the ashes of bitterness, as they join the rest of us. |
It's sad that you allow pessimism and despair and mental breakdown to overtake reality as if you missed decades of Korg's keyboard workstation evolution to have to come up with a personal theory that Korg is gonna stop their workstation production line of building profitable keyboard workstations because they didn't come out with the Kronos 3 at your personal timetable.
New Workstations from all three main companies are here to stay forever. Now, the determination of a workstation may be debated by the consumers and some companies like maybe Yamaha. Who substituted a real workstation for just a synthesizer with a sequencer. And then wish to change the meaning of workstation from Keyboard Synth/ROMpler, Sequencer, Sampler. To just ROMpler/Sequencer to sell a slew of keyboards with less features and escape the just Synth label due to potential sales.
But even Yamaha I feel may someday come back to the full blown workstation title with a ROMpler/Sequencer/Sampler workstation when they exhausted this synthesizer series to breathe new life into a long in the tooth Montage line. It's all timing and considering the huge success of the Kronos keyboards, it would be foolish to actually think they would discontinue their biggest selling current keyboard line for no reason. |
First of all, are you a qualified professional to talk about a mental breakdown? If not then STFU. I’m basing my opinion, not on my timetable, but reality. You continue to live in a dream world that Korg cares about your opinions. Their only product developments are always centered around Raspberry Pi. It would be foolish to think “who” would discontinue their biggest selling current keyboard, Yamaha or Korg? In Korg’s case it has already happened. They stopped making the Kronos 2 some time ago, or are you on some drug induced hallucination and think it’s still here? |
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average_male
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 278
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2023 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | New Workstations from all three main companies are here to stay forever. |
Forever is a pretty long time, did you want to quantify that?
My theory is that the very topic of this whole thread/discussion is flawed. Korg had already stopping manufacturing and promoting the Kronos line, right? |
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