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RH3 or "synth action"
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Citizen Klaus
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
alantunucci wrote:
People with proper training can do fast notes on hammer action keys, see Jordan Rudess, for example.


JR also makes a decent enough living from his music that he can afford to practice for like 10 hours a day. And he did a conservatory at Juilliard.

That type of training, yielding those sorts of results, is pretty unrealistic for many hobbyists or even, arguably, for professionals who can't sustain a full-time music career.
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StephenKay
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
alantunucci wrote:
StephenKay wrote:
If every time you touch your weighted keyboard you're thinking about how much force is necessary to press the keys, vs. the phrase you are playing, that would be a clue that you should have gone with a synth action.


Or that you need more training, lol.

I think hammer-action keys help the development of your fingers. Personally, synth action keys don't help me at all: I think I screw my fingers if I keep playing with them.

People with proper training can do fast notes on hammer action keys, see Jordan Rudess, for example.

Well, I was classically trained, I have a Yamaha C7 grand, I've played real piano all my life since the age of 7, and I prefer synth action on my synths. Mr. Green
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Unicorn



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Go for weighted keys, especially if you "like" playing keyboard. Buy a small cheap 49 key synth action keyboard to sit beside it and you are done.

The first time I used a weighted keyboard was XV88, fantastic board, after previously using O1/W, Trinity etc and and I was not a classically trained pianost at that time. That helped me build up my finger technique. The inspiration and the control on sound that you will get from playing weighted keyboard is miles apart as compared with that of playing synth action keyboard. Everything sounds SO different becuase of the precise control you get on the sound - be it Strings, Brass whatever. Just my personal opinion..
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McHale
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
StephenKay wrote:
Well, I was classically trained, I have a Yamaha C7 grand, I've played real piano all my life since the age of 7, and I prefer synth action on my synths. Mr. Green


Finally! Someone who feels my pain...

I just have this sinking feeling that when the Kronos 88 comes I'm going to be selling it for a loss because I can't deal with the weighted keys...

Sad
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master logic
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Unicorn wrote:
The inspiration and the control on sound that you will get from playing weighted keyboard is miles apart as compared with that of playing synth action keyboard. Everything sounds SO different becuase of the precise control you get on the sound - be it Strings, Brass whatever. Just my personal opinion..


My thoughts exactly; to apply that, in my case, to techno music i can only see positives. Why just bash things out when you can have so many subtle nuances that might not be present otherwise. I'll definitely test both versions of Kronos but long term i think it best that i go with the Graded keys.
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Akos Janca
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
RH3 or synth action?

Try it and choose the better one for yourself. Advices won't help because it depends on personal things: your training, your music style (which sounds you want to play), and your relation with the instrument (how it responds to your touch).

Neither weighted action nor synth action is good for every situation.

Workstations can imitate the sound of many instruments but unfortunately are equipped with only one keybed. (What about the harpsichord for example? It's not like weighted action but not like synth action either. It's a unique third one.) So, we have to make a compromise: 1. to choose the keybed what we like or would use the most, 2. then to practice and learn how to use it for the other "not-so-suitable" sounds.
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TheLeadingSaw



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I want a workstation with a keybed similar to a Rhodes one, the feel is great.
You probably will have problem with RH3, especially if you don't have an acoustic piano playing history. Yeah, when you play a piano & string sound you'll have the time of your life, but when it gets to organ and leads you will get frustrated and probably spend most of your time playing other instruments.
What is another reason for Korg to make a semi weighted keybed Kronos! And why I started a 6 page thread about it Crying or Very sad
So anyway, if you want a pre-ordered Kronos you should go down to a music store and try out the keybed of a weighted M3/M50 and a synth action M3/M50.
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EnjoyRC
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I played a M50/88 last week... RH3 keybed... Wow, I love it!!! What a great feeling keyboard. And I use to think Yamaha was the brand for getting the graded hammer action feel. Good job Korg!!!
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Akos Janca
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I love the RH3 action (made by Korg) in SV-1, it's great.

However, for "authentic hammer action emulation" I will never forget to check Yamaha. They build real pianos - they know a thing or two about keybeds.
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TheLeadingSaw



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Akos Janca wrote:
I love the RH3 action (made by Korg) in SV-1, it's great.

However, for "authentic hammer action emulation" I will never forget to check Yamaha. They build real pianos - they know a thing or two about keybeds.


They build real pianos, but probably can't make a workstation with a keybed similar to an acoustic piano. When I first played the Motif the first thing I noticed was the big difference between it's keybed and my upright Yamaha U2 keybed.
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EnjoyRC
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Akos Janca wrote:
They build real pianos - they know a thing or two about keybeds.

They build motorcycles... they know a thing or two about building keybeds. Rolling Eyes
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ozy
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Citizen Klaus wrote:
JR also makes a decent enough living from his music that he can afford to practice for like 10 hours a day.


I don't like Rudess,

but may I say that it's probably the other way around?

"he makes a decent living because he's been practicing 10 hours a day for some time"?

Does it sound sensible?

It happens to athletes, maybe it happens to musicians as well...

OT closed
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Akos Janca
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
TheLeadingSaw wrote:
Akos Janca wrote:
I love the RH3 action (made by Korg) in SV-1, it's great.

However, for "authentic hammer action emulation" I will never forget to check Yamaha. They build real pianos - they know a thing or two about keybeds.


They build real pianos, but probably can't make a workstation with a keybed similar to an acoustic piano. When I first played the Motif the first thing I noticed was the big difference between it's keybed and my upright Yamaha U2 keybed.


I just want to say as a classically trained pianist I've found weighted keybeds of Yamaha digital pianos or synths very comfortable until now.

Unfortunately, I haven't played a Motif yet, I have no experience. Embarassed Shocked Still I can't believe it's bad.

EnjoyRC wrote:
Akos Janca wrote:
They build real pianos - they know a thing or two about keybeds.

They build motorcycles... they know a thing or two about building keybeds. Rolling Eyes


It's another department! Very Happy
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drama1
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
McHale wrote:
StephenKay wrote:
Well, I was classically trained, I have a Yamaha C7 grand, I've played real piano all my life since the age of 7, and I prefer synth action on my synths. Mr. Green


Finally! Someone who feels my pain...

I just have this sinking feeling that when the Kronos 88 comes I'm going to be selling it for a loss because I can't deal with the weighted keys...

Sad

Yup, I came this close (-) to ordering an 88, but am glad I didn't. I will certainly check out the Kronos when released, but my M3-73 fully loaded seems for me anyway, the perfect board because of weight, size and sound. I use the Karma for smooth program/combi changes, going to be ordering the K-Sounds Yamaha C7 sample set and B3 Organimation. For me the Radias exp produces more than enough analog sounds. The more I read about the Kronos, I'm not sure I need three different analog exi's, not really crazy about the CX3 so far and because there's no real weight difference between the 73 and 88, it's not going to be easy lugging up and down stairs. Unless there's a HUGE difference on quality of sound, I'll probably stick with the M3 for now.
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Citizen Klaus
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ozy wrote:
Citizen Klaus wrote:
JR also makes a decent enough living from his music that he can afford to practice for like 10 hours a day.


I don't like Rudess,

but may I say that it's probably the other way around?

"he makes a decent living because he's been practicing 10 hours a day for some time"?

Does it sound sensible?

It happens to athletes, maybe it happens to musicians as well...

OT closed


It's probably more of a self-sustaining loop, at this point. He had all of that elite training, and put in all that practice time, to achieve virtuosity, which helped propel his success as a musician. That success, in turn, enabled him to practice more, thus reinforcing his position.

Back on track, I'm not quite sure I buy the arguments about the moral superiority of hammer actions. They're better, as Mr. Kay pointed out, for emulating the feel of one specific category of keyboard instruments, but they in turn demand a different approach to playing technique. If you play an organ engine using a weighted keybed, and you don't want to hurt yourself, you end up playing the organ like a pianist, rather than like an organist.

Back to Rudess, and as much as I love him as a musician, you can hear this whenever he plays a Hammond sound -- his glissandos are much less smooth than those of a proper organist doing palm smears. They sound more like piano glissandos, which makes sense, given that he's playing them on a piano-style keybed. He also tends to incorporate glissandos less often, focusing more on staccato block chords.

Now some of that, to be sure, is down to different approaches to playing. Even on the same type of keybed action, I wouldn't expect Jordan Rudess and, say, Brian Auger to play in an identical manner. At the same time, the fact that there appears to be a correlation between keybed action and differences in the sound of the performance suggests that the action at least contributes to -- even if it doesn't necessarily cause outright -- the sound of the end result.

Last edited by Citizen Klaus on Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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