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| Do you think you have lost the sound quality of the original OS 1.1.1 factory program/combis after the OS 1.2.1 upgrade? |
| Yes |
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15% |
[ 3 ] |
| No |
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85% |
[ 17 ] |
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| Total Votes : 20 |
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Message |
StephenKay
KARMA Developer
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Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2979
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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 Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| elvisjohndowson wrote: | | Another thing to keep in mind is the age of the listener. It would be nice if there is someone who's less than 20 years of age and who's capable of critical audio analysis to see if the differences can be percieved. As you get older you lose your hearning sensitivity and this may vary from person to person and duration of exposure levels to decibels. I'm 32, so although I can percieve the difference, someone considerably older say between 50 to 60 would probably not. I know this is probably something that someone who fits in that age group would want to hear, but it is a factor to be considered when testing this scenario. I apologize in advance for hurting anyone's sentiments, but it must be stated upfront. |
Right, we're all too "old" to hear the difference. 
Not that I'm feeling any need to defend myself, but another thing to be considered is the experience of the listener's ears. I can often pick things out in a mix that my younger brothers and sisters don't even know are there. However, if you to say it's so "obvious" to you, I doubt that us "old geezers" would miss it.
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StephenKay
KARMA Developer
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Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2979
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:50 am Post subject: |
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| elvisjohndowson wrote: | Hi Stephen,
Would you be willing to reset your OASYS to 1.1.0 play the following patches and see if you can hear a difference after upgrading it to 1.2.1?
Do keep in mind that to downgrade from OS 1.2.1 to OS 1.1.0 you will have to reformat your internal hard disk. |
To be honest - no. 
I'm in the middle of some projects with deadlines, I've already spent too much time over here today (because I care), but I can't get involved in reformatting my hard drive, recording examples of comparisons, etc. Anyway, that's more or less someone at Korg's job, but I'd be surprised anyone is going to do it without some more scientific proof that there is indeed a difference. Even from the few people voting on this thread, it's currently 80% feel there's no difference. Don't forget, a large number of engineers and voicing people at Korg have used this version, and believe it or not, some of them are well under age 50.
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Stephen Kay - KARMA Developer • Karma-Lab - karma-lab.com
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elvisjohndowson
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 290
Location: Dubai, U.A.E.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:52 am Post subject: |
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| StephenKay wrote: | Right, we're all too "old" to hear the difference.
Not that I'm feeling any need to defend myself, but another thing to be considered is the experience of the listener's ears. I can often pick things out in a mix that my younger brothers and sisters don't even know are there. However, if you to say it's so "obvious" to you, I doubt that us "old geezers" would miss it. |
No offense meant Stephen  ! As long as we're trying to keep the tests scientific, let's factor in all the variables shall we? 
Yes, you're correct, only someone whose ears are trained and pays special attention to detail can pick out or notice these elements. Maybe there is an OASYS owner in their teens or early twenties who would fit the bill?!! I don't know, but that person would certainly be an ideal candidate.
Anyway, like I said, no offense meant, I'm a sort of old geezer myself at 32 who thinks he's still 17 !! 
Elvis Dowson
Last edited by elvisjohndowson on Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:58 am; edited 2 times in total |
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elvisjohndowson
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 290
Location: Dubai, U.A.E.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| StephenKay wrote: | | elvisjohndowson wrote: | Hi Stephen,
Would you be willing to reset your OASYS to 1.1.0 play the following patches and see if you can hear a difference after upgrading it to 1.2.1?
Do keep in mind that to downgrade from OS 1.2.1 to OS 1.1.0 you will have to reformat your internal hard disk. |
To be honest - no. |
So what in your opinion would be a test case that I can execute, keeping in mind that I have only an OASYS 76 and a pair of headphones?
Give me the test scenario and I will do it. I've already backup all my data and can spend 4 hours this evening.
Elvis Dowson
Last edited by elvisjohndowson on Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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StephenKay
KARMA Developer
Approved Merchant
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2979
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:55 am Post subject: |
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...also, it should be quite easy for someone at Korg R&D or Korg Japan to compare two units side by side, which is really what needs to be done to address this issue. I have brought this to their attention, if they aren't aware of it already.
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StephenKay
KARMA Developer
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Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2979
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| elvisjohndowson wrote: | So what in your opinion would be a test case that I can execute, keeping in mind that I have only an OASYS 76 and a pair of headphones?
Give me the test scenario and I will do it. I've already backup all my data and can spend 4 hours this evening. |
Well, as I said, I would find several examples of combis/programs where you clearly perceive a difference, and then actually record yourself playing the test example(s) as MIDI data into a Song. Save the SEQ file.
Use this sequence data to record examples to WAV files on both OS's. If there's a difference, I cannot see how it would not end up in the WAV files, right? The hard disk records what comes out of the Digital L/R Bus.
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elvisjohndowson
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 290
Location: Dubai, U.A.E.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| StephenKay wrote: | | If there's a difference, I cannot see how it would not end up in the WAV files, right? The hard disk records what comes out of the Digital L/R Bus. |
Yes, but you will have to factor the resolution and frequency. Do you mean to imply that the sound quality at the OASYS's D/A output stages (after internal 24/32 bit processing I forget which) is in fact only 16-bit 48khz?!! 
I thought that the analog output stages were 24-bit 96Khz for playback and that internal re-sampling occurs at only 16-bits and 48kHz, so clearly there is more headroom in the 24-bit 96kHz playback than the 16-bit 48kHz playback to discern such a difference. Do correct me if I am wrong.
Elvis Dowson |
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Daz
Retired
Joined: 01 Jan 2002
Posts: 10829
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:09 am Post subject: |
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I am 37, my hearing is good and especially sensitive to high frequency content and I am listening to my Oasys through some very respectable monitors (ribbon tweeters that go well beyond the max 24kHz highs of the Oasys). My Oasys is connected digitally via ADAT to my audio interface (RME Fireface). I am a little shortsighted
I am confused now ... are hearing harmonic distortion, ambience or a loss or gain of high frequency content ?
Daz/ |
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elvisjohndowson
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 290
Location: Dubai, U.A.E.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:15 am Post subject: |
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| StephenKay wrote: | | Even from the few people voting on this thread, it's currently 80% feel there's no difference. |
I've counted three confirmed and one unconfirmed and they are as follows:
Confirmed
1. RC-IA
2. master logic
3. elvisjohndowson
Un-confirmed
1. MFenkner (He's stated a problem related to clipping and distortion of the LAC-1 sounds, but I could not discern from his post if he also tried out the factory combis and programs)
I think that one person did not vote or somthing like that.
Elvis Dowson |
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elvisjohndowson
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 290
Location: Dubai, U.A.E.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| Daz wrote: | | I am confused now ... are hearing harmonic distortion, ambience or a loss or gain of high frequency content ? |
I would think harmonic distortion when playing back the combis that I mentioned earlier, coupled with an overall ambient effect.
Elvis Dowson
Last edited by elvisjohndowson on Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Daz
Retired
Joined: 01 Jan 2002
Posts: 10829
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| The LAC-1 stuff is supposed to clip it's part of the analog emulation ... it's a feature and a good one too. |
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Mike Conway
Approved Merchant
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 2437
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| elvisjohndowson wrote: | | So what in your opinion would be a test case that I can executeElvis Dowson |
As I said in my post on the previous page -
Use the same MIDI sequence,
All FX off,
Filters open (don't use any lowpass, open it to 99, with no offsets).
As someone noted, check your Global velocity curve settings (write them down) and make sure that they stay the same between OS versions.
P.S. Elvis isn't kiddning about the high range hearing ability of people under 25 (or so). Some have special cell phones with high pitch ring tones that even their young teachers can't hear. (I don't know if that pertains to the OASYS impressions or not.)
Last edited by Mike Conway on Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:22 am; edited 3 times in total |
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MartinHines
Platinum Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3037
Location: Topeka, KS (USA)
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:19 am Post subject: |
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I couldn't tell any difference between the two files.
I assume Dan P. will weigh in with comments.
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elvisjohndowson
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 290
Location: Dubai, U.A.E.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| MartinHines wrote: | I couldn't tell any difference between the two files.
I assume Dan P. will weigh in with comments. |
The difference is not very apparent in the re-sampled wave files but more apparent during live playback.
Guys, I wouldnt be spending so much time stating this over and over again, unless I can hear an actual difference between OS 1.1.0 and OS 1.2.1. It may even be because of some changes to global settings, but I don't know. It's really quite difficult to write down all the settings for Global Mode for OS 1.1.0 and then for OS 1.2.1 and then reset those setting. I mean, this is like adding to my work and it quite unproductive and Korg shouldn't expect their users to undergo this type of hassle.
Elvis Dowson |
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Mike Conway
Approved Merchant
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 2437
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| elvisjohndowson wrote: | | It's really quite difficult to write down all the settings for Global Mode for OS 1.1.0 and then for OS 1.2.1 and then reset those setting. I mean, this is like adding to my work and it quite unproductive and Korg shouldn't expect their users to undergo this type of hassle. |
You're the one who brought this info up. (Korg probably only knows it from you.) I'm only asking you to write down one setting - Global - Velocity Curve (upper left). Okay, just remember the number "4" and see if that changes.
No, I don't work for Korg, nor do I notice a difference in the sound (though I'm sure you're onto something). Just trying to help a fellow player. |
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