Korg Forums

[dazedrazed]

Hello all.

I need advice on buying my first (sort of, first "serious") keyboard.

I'm a songwriter needing a relatively portable keyboard which offers a possibility of creating decently-sounding full songs for demos.

I went to a shop to try out and pick up a MicroArranger, but I left the shop without it. Apart from the tiny toyish keys (that I'd probably get used to), it felt rather flimsy. What I liked about it is that it's cheap and that maybe I could bring it on a plane if I move to some other country for work in a year and a half. The sounds seemed decent.

The Krome is twice the MicroArranger money. It sounds great. It's more than my budget, but I'd rather buy the right thing right away than throw the money down the wind.

I'm not really familiar with workstations (I've done some reading on the difference between the arrangers and the workstations), so I was hoping you'd be able to offer some advice on which would be better for me.

Thank you!

[Erenion]

Hello

If you just want to create the melody and let the keyboard play the other parts I would choose an arranger .

It your aim is to create all the parts of the song, create your own sounds or whatever the workstation should be my choice.

[uniformedservices1969]

[dazedrazed]

Thank you for your input.

How does the sequencer differ from the arranger accompaniment?

[csteen]

I am pretty sure the micro does have a sequencer included with it. However the sound quality of the Krome is vastly superior to the micro. I would think that for song writing purposes that the krome would give you alot more bang for your buck and it even has piano roll editing.
For that matter perhaps do not rule out an M50 which also has much better sound and a touch screen for sequencing. I find the touch screen to be an invaluable tool for quickly editing most anything from sounds and effects right on through to sequencing. A good used M50 on Ebay will not cost you much more than the micro and is an excellent tool for song creation I find.

[uniformedservices1969]

[worth]

if you are not a keyboard player and this is your first time in owning a serious keyboard and you are looking for it to help you write songs and not playing with filters,effects routing etc , then you should be seriously considering an arranger keyboard/workstation like the micro arranger or a PA800 or used PA1X instead of a workstation. Forget what you are being told about sound quality and the numbers of effects and the depth of editing. The arranger will more than satisfy your needs sonically but what it will do more than anything else is enable you to get your song ideas down and recorded very very quickly ! You can edit the idea to your taste later , using either the keyboards own detailed sequencer which is adequate or an external software or hardware sequencer if you prefer.

Real examples are better than 1000 words .

i arranged this song using the onboard sequencer of the Korg PA1X arranger . It took me about 2 hours from start to finish. The song was recorded by my brother on his hand held camera. All the clip is trying to show you is how a complete song can be recorded in a portable keyboard arranger using just the onboard sequencer and the internal effects and sounds .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PluPIFtAM48

this next song is a popular gospel song and it was played and recorded live in real time. By using the backing tracks in the arranger which you can literally jam and create live performances . This shows you how quickly a song idea can be transformed into a complete song which you can edit in detail later.

Forgive my singing ha ha !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lubAqrhzzxo&feature=relmfu

and just for comparrison here is a recording of my brother composing a groove on a true workstation Yamaha Motif XS and this time i am behind the camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX2WwH5ngzo&feature=plcp

This shows you how a traditionakl workstation works where tracks can be built up track by track which the korgarranger can do in exactly the same way. Again this was recorded on my phone camera so pardon the audio quality.

Buy the instrument that suits the purposes you want it for. Not what other folks are looking for.

lastly have a listen to Kevin Kooyumjian who is a profession musician in the sanfranscico area who plays live on the Korg PA1X aranger which you can pick up for under £1000 second hand.

http://www.jango.com/music/Kevin+Kooyumjian?l=0

I hope these practical examples help. Best of luck.

God Bless

Worth

[uniformedservices1969]

[worth]

didnt mean to offend anyone here. Relax my brother

He can pick up any Korg arranger from the PA80 to the PA500 . All would be in his price range if he shops around. He he can certainly find a used PA1X for under a £1000 if he looks . I did not appreciate his price restriction but thanks for pointing this out .

Again no offence intended. Take care

Worth

[dazedrazed]

Dazedrazed is a girl

I've had quite some experience with the Roland E86 arranger a decade ago. One particular thing that seems a bit confining is what can also be seen as the arrangers' biggest advantage: the pre-set arrangements.

I've spent my day finding out info on the Krome. Even though Krome is out of my budget at the moment, the MicroArranger was really a disappointment, and I didn't feel like I was investing my money well. I think I'll listen to my gut feeling and rather buy the Krome soon.

Anyways, thanks for the input. I also appreciate your input, Worth, and I loved the video of your brother using the Motif for composing.

My last question (I guess) is: Is it possible to use the workstation to compose songs in which the rhythm changes completely once or twice during the song?

Thank you all

[csteen]

The rhythm can be changed at any beat and as many changes as you like, you can even change kits mid stream for more sounds. I never use just one pattern in a song . You can rerecord arps also and have many arp patterns recorded to seperate tracks for lots of motion.

[billbaker]

Dazedcrazed,

It is an interesting question.

I don't know how much experience you have writing. Nor do I know what might inspire you.

For me, I would much rather have a unique sound and see where that leads me than work within the constraints of preset arrangers using essentially a GM sound palate and super-generic styles.

Being someone who plays with other musicians, I want something that's going to provide a finished sounding but not overly complex/dense backing.

So, give me that inspiring sound and a drum track (on a variety of kits) and I can make a reasonable attempt at writing you a new song. If I wanted to flesh it out more, I might write that to a sequencer and add bass or a guitar or other comping voice and lastly maybe add a lead sound in counter-melody.

600 drum tracks and 200+ drum arps seems like it would go a long way toward providing you with starting points. Those pattern can be assigned to any of the many on-board kits to give you new/different sounds -- the same pattern with a power pop kit @ 120 bpm will sound completely different at 85 bpm and jazz kit.

Double arp accompaniment is not perfect as a background arrangement tool, but still allows you a lot of flexibility when adding bass to the left hand or synth arpeggios to the right.

A full featured sequencer.

A great piano.

Touch screen.

Full sized keys.

You don't get easy with Krome - no easy fills or variations, no easy bass or guitar. But you won't get sucked into cookie-cutter sounds as easily either.


BB
_________________
billbaker

Triton Extreme 88, Triton Classic Pro, Trinity V3 Pro
+E-mu, Alesis, Korg, Kawai, Yamaha, Line-6, TC Elecronics, Behringer, Lexicon...

[billbaker]

[Double post removed - BB]
_________________
billbaker

Triton Extreme 88, Triton Classic Pro, Trinity V3 Pro
+E-mu, Alesis, Korg, Kawai, Yamaha, Line-6, TC Elecronics, Behringer, Lexicon...

[dazedrazed]

@BillBaker:
Your post is really helpful, thanks for that.

I have some experience writing songs in barebones mode (read: piano) on a little Casio that I used as a cheap option two years ago. I don't have it any more.

I really needed to go to that shop, see what was on offer and think about the things I want to be able to do. I'm aware of the fact that I'll need to put more effort in learning how to use all that Krome offers, but the possibilities seem absolutely like falling in love

There is a Krome 61 coming in the next 10 days. Can't wait...

[miden]

Yes I concur, Bills post was well written, and made a lot of sense. I am going back to the WS concept from using arrangers for several years (Korg PA series included).

And I too, am jumping for the Krome...couldn't afford the Kronos -well not yet anyway.