Frustrated Ranting ahead...

[Musicwithharry]

It would be really neat to be able to not have to Mute/Unmute each track that I am sending via MIDI for layering (at least not beyond Muting and Unmuting Track 10).

Because I do not know how a KROSS reacts to such Korg-specific SysExs in the midi peripherals I would not use the SysEx headers from the SMFs written with Pa keyboards!

Would it be possible to add MIDI messages at the beginning of each song to Mute/Unmute all tracks? Perhaps this manual workaround/fix would also work if automated (assuming the track Mute/Unmute command is implemented in MIDI for the Pa700).

Great suggestion. I do not know if it would work or not. I never considered that as an option. It never came to mind

I will try it out

Thanks again.

Grace,
Harry

[siebenhirter]

I am still convinced that your problems are caused either by an undeleted SysEx header in the SMF or the preferences for song play in the globals, which are probably stored with muted tracks.
*

.. It would be really neat to be able to not have to Mute/Unmute each track that I am sending via MIDI for layering (at least not beyond Muting and Unmuting Track 10) ... possible to add MIDI messages at the beginning of each song to Mute/Unmute all tracks ..

Before player starts a SMF all 16 tracks have track settings inherited of last played song. In case of mode change (from stylePlay or soundEdit) track settings of all 16 tracks are initialized with status = unmuted, volume = 100, program = 0. As soon as a song will be startet (with play) status of tracks is changed to values that are loaded with songs SysEx header - if no SysEx header exists, SysEx header is read from globals (= preference songplayer/sequencer).

Muted / unmuted tracks 1 - 16 only influence whether midi events can be read from the tracks via songplayer - but they do not change the settings of the connected peripherals.

Therefore it makes no sense to additional implement mute/unmute commands - which also is not possible via MIDI commands but only via SysEx.

Better use Global > Mode Preferences > Song & Seq page for letting a MIDI Song start immediately. Select the Fast Play checkbox to let the MIDI Songs ignore the silent setup measure at the beginning. If the peripherals are too slow for FastPlay, there is also the option of briefly pressing the FAST FORWARD button once an SMF has been loaded - this also positions the SMF behind the measure setup at the start.

In either case, this only works reliably if the SMF :
- does not have a SysEx header (i.e. has been deleted) or
- no track with "mute" is stored in the SysExHeader or
- in case of a missing SysEx header no track is saved with "mute" in the preferences for Songplay.
*

......The Pa700 is sending too much data over to the Kross......

What exactly is sent to much? Did you ever look what kind of messages is sent from Pa700? Use a monitor (like MIDI-OX) to look what unwanted messages are sent - there should be no data in the SMF that you do not want to send.

..........problem with the EFX for the Kross being reset to zero when loading in a new sequence or just going into sequencer mode on the PA700 .....

Should not happen if only using MIDI-channel-messages but maybe with System commands from same manufacterer disturb Kross' settings
(SysEx F0 42 7F...). If SysEx header is existing in SMF delete him (best done with freeware PSRUtil). Set all 16 tracks control to "external" (4 tracks Upper/Lower to "internal") - at least this prevent drum events from being routed to the Pa-internal drums.
In Midi-Out of Pa-Keyboard set all to channels to sequencer-tracks (Seq1 .. track 1-16), in Midi-In of Pa-Keyboard set all channels to "Off", Filter in Midi-Out at least "SysEx" and all "FX controls", Clock-Send "off".
If SysEx-Header is deleted take care to save songplay-preferences in globals without muted tracks.
What now would be seen transmitted in Midi-monitor that is not a channel message is suspicious, because should not occur again.
*

.... PA700, in sequencer mode, not working right because I have the layered parts that are supposed to be triggered on the Kross from the PA700 do not always trigger. I have to hit the button next to the play button on the PA700 a couple of times before the other machine starts to play the parts"..............

What does it mean "other machine starts to play"? I rather think Pa700 is the master and tries to execute and transmit an extensive SysEx-Header during the measure setup before starting to transmit SMFs-events. Try to use fast play or fast forward before pressing play, transmission will start immediately.
*
What else is to do? I hope you do not use sequencer-mode but play-mode, because listening MIDI Songs in the Sequencer mode is useful when you want to check the results of editing.
*
If SysEx really are needed (Midi-On, GM2-System-On, Reverb, Chorus, DSP ..) insert it according to the manufactors rules and with Pa700 try to load SMFs with import, to prevent loading Global SysExs - in that case do not filter "SysEx".
*
PS DrumKits:It is not difficult to move the instruments of a Pa drum set in order to create Pa user-drums accordingly to control the DK peripherie.

[Musicwithharry]

I am still convinced that your problems are caused either by an undeleted SysEx header in the SMF or the preferences for song play in the globals, which are probably stored with muted tracks.
*

.. It would be really neat to be able to not have to Mute/Unmute each track that I am sending via MIDI for layering (at least not beyond Muting and Unmuting Track 10) ... possible to add MIDI messages at the beginning of each song to Mute/Unmute all tracks ..

Before player starts a SMF all 16 tracks have track settings inherited of last played song. In case of mode change (from stylePlay or soundEdit) track settings of all 16 tracks are initialized with status = unmuted, volume = 100, program = 0. As soon as a song will be startet (with play) status of tracks is changed to values that are loaded with songs SysEx header - if no SysEx header exists, SysEx header is read from globals (= preference songplayer/sequencer).

Muted / unmuted tracks 1 - 16 only influence whether midi events can be read from the tracks via songplayer - but they do not change the settings of the connected peripherals.

Therefore it makes no sense to additional implement mute/unmute commands - which also is not possible via MIDI commands but only via SysEx.

Better use Global > Mode Preferences > Song & Seq page for letting a MIDI Song start immediately. Select the Fast Play checkbox to let the MIDI Songs ignore the silent setup measure at the beginning. If the peripherals are too slow for FastPlay, there is also the option of briefly pressing the FAST FORWARD button once an SMF has been loaded - this also positions the SMF behind the measure setup at the start.

In either case, this only works reliably if the SMF :
- does not have a SysEx header (i.e. has been deleted) or
- no track with "mute" is stored in the SysExHeader or
- in case of a missing SysEx header no track is saved with "mute" in the preferences for Songplay.
*

......The Pa700 is sending too much data over to the Kross......

What exactly is sent to much? Did you ever look what kind of messages is sent from Pa700? Use a monitor (like MIDI-OX) to look what unwanted messages are sent - there should be no data in the SMF that you do not want to send.

..........problem with the EFX for the Kross being reset to zero when loading in a new sequence or just going into sequencer mode on the PA700 .....

Should not happen if only using MIDI-channel-messages but maybe with System commands from same manufacterer disturb Kross' settings
(SysEx F0 42 7F...). If SysEx header is existing in SMF delete him (best done with freeware PSRUtil). Set all 16 tracks control to "external" (4 tracks Upper/Lower to "internal") - at least this prevent drum events from being routed to the Pa-internal drums.
In Midi-Out of Pa-Keyboard set all to channels to sequencer-tracks (Seq1 .. track 1-16), in Midi-In of Pa-Keyboard set all channels to "Off", Filter in Midi-Out at least "SysEx" and all "FX controls", Clock-Send "off".
If SysEx-Header is deleted take care to save songplay-preferences in globals without muted tracks.
What now would be seen transmitted in Midi-monitor that is not a channel message is suspicious, because should not occur again.
*

.... PA700, in sequencer mode, not working right because I have the layered parts that are supposed to be triggered on the Kross from the PA700 do not always trigger. I have to hit the button next to the play button on the PA700 a couple of times before the other machine starts to play the parts"..............

What does it mean "other machine starts to play"? I rather think Pa700 is the master and tries to execute and transmit an extensive SysEx-Header during the measure setup before starting to transmit SMFs-events. Try to use fast play or fast forward before pressing play, transmission will start immediately.
*
What else is to do? I hope you do not use sequencer-mode but play-mode, because listening MIDI Songs in the Sequencer mode is useful when you want to check the results of editing.
*
If SysEx really are needed (Midi-On, GM2-System-On, Reverb, Chorus, DSP ..) insert it according to the manufactors rules and with Pa700 try to load SMFs with import, to prevent loading Global SysExs - in that case do not filter "SysEx".

I think that there is a bit of confusion in my problem, based on your answers (which I do appreciate).

First, I am programming the sequences in the PA700 in Sequencer Mode. I am also modifying existing sequences (MIDI files) in Sequencer Mode on the PA700. It is totally 'in house' and I am not using any external programs to make MIDI files. I will either start from scratch and build a sequence, track by track, or I will download something from the Internet, put it on a flash drive, plug that flash drive into the PA700, and then select it in the window when I select a MIDI file. When I am done editing the file (whether it is from scratch or a modified MIDI file from the Internet), I save it to the internal MicroSD card I have installed into the PA700.

I am currently using internal sounds from the PA700 AND using an Alesis SR-16 drum machine to layer with the internal drum sounds on the PA700.

I ran into a problem when trying to create a Combi or Sequence Preset on an external device (Korg Kross at first, then the M50 and other MIDI gear I have in my studio). When I start a sequence, in Sequencer Mode, it does not trigger the external devices, unless I Mute and then unmute the desired track(s). In the simplest case, I Mute and Unmute Track 10 (Drums) and it kicks in when I hit start on the PA700 Sequencer. If I do not do that, the SR-16 will not play the data on the track.

I have checked each track in the Track Controls in the sequencer and they are ALL set to 'Both'. I have double checked the Global settings and 'Fast Play' is enabled. I also have a MIDI preset that I created that is specifically sending the MIDI Out to the tracks, and not the other options (like Acc1/Acc2/Bass/Drums and so on). I have the PA700 set up to act as a sequencer in this case. I modified the initial (factory) MIDI setup to include not sending On/Off info for the effects and a couple of other things, so that it does cause problems with the other having their EFX change to '0'. That part has been working fine, since I made the changes.

I am not using Song Mode on every song. I am using Song Mode on my original material (songs I have written) because I need to layer lead voices. I am not using Song Mode with most of the other sequences, which are cover songs for a trio group I am putting together. I remain in Sequencer Mode for those. I do not plan on creating a song in the Songbook and Set List for these cover song sequences.

I understand that the PA700 is the master in all of this. I have been using MIDI since the Mid-80s and have run multi setups for years. It seems different with the PA700 because of this problem. I am not hooking anything up to the MIDI In port on the PA700; only the MIDI Out port. It is indeed the Master keyboard triggering internal sounds and sending data to external devices (again, in this case, the Alesis drum machine).

With this trio band I am putting together, I am basically the BAND. One of the other members also plays keys and sings, and will be providing ancillary parts over what I have programmed. I had not considered using any external devices and keep everything in the PA700, but the drums get lost in the mix and with only one set of audio outputs on the PA700, I have no way of bringing the drums up without lowering everything else. That will not work. That is why I had considered using another keyboard to layer with the PA700. After much time and frustration, I decided to simply add to the drums and that is why I bought the Alesis SR-16.

I do not SYSEx with this because I am not trying to control any external EFX or make any program changes. The EFX that I am using are programmed, by me, into the sequence on the PA700. If I were to try to make any Combis or Sequencer Preset Templates on the Kross or the M50, I would add the EFX within those keyboards for every specific songs. I do not need to send this info from the PA700, and that is why I do not program it in, and also why I set the MIDI filter in the MIDI setup on the PA700.

I am not using any GM sounds in these sequences, and so I do not need to send any program change info either. The only control change info I need to send is damper pedal info, as well as occasional velocity/volume change info for a given track.

I plan on loading each sequence for each song in individually on the PA700, from the MicroSD card, based on whatever set list we decide to set up. I am not sure that the sequencer would keep the SMF info from the previous song, because I am loading a new one in every time. It is easier this way, just because of the sheer number of songs that I already have programmed.

I will look into my settings again and may even try to use the Song Play Mode and see if that takes care of it. I have done this on my original material and if memory serves, I still had to go into the individual drum track, Mute it and then Unmute it again.

I have a message into Korg about this but have not heard back yet. Maybe they are too busy with the release of the new Nautilus and OPSix to respond yet...

Thank you again.

Grace,
Harry