 |
Korg Forums
A forum for Korg product users and musicians around the world.
Moderated Independently.
Owned by Irish Acts Recording Studio & hosted by KORG USA
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
AMR
Junior Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 86
Location: Lisbon, Portugal... Mostly.
|
 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:34 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| zengomi wrote: | | AMR wrote: | | zengomi wrote: | | Those who cannot find their way to create (music), complain about the tools. Thus will it ever be. Humans are really that predictable. |
So do those who can, I should know.
Kind Regards,
AMR
http://www.alvaromrocha.com |
That really doesn't make sense. If one is creating fulfilling music, there's no reason to complain. Unless, that is, one is not satisfied with one's musical creations. There, again, the problem is personal.
I can make make music with a piece of string. But I bet there are people who would vent angrily at a piece of string that thwarted their genius. |
I'm quite satisfied with my creations, just not satisfied - at all - with the time they took due to Kronos not performing as it should. Time is money.
Kronos is suposed to be very spontaenous and rewarding, which it is, and second to none, just as long as you stay from anything other than merely playing... Otherwise, for the time being, either get a DAW, a therapist or a punching bag, the later being my "workaround" of choice.
Hoping it gets sorted in future updates though.
Kind Regards,
AMR
http://www.alvaromrocha.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
zengomi
Full Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2011
Posts: 120
Location: Tokyo
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| AMR wrote: | | zengomi wrote: | | AMR wrote: | | zengomi wrote: | | Those who cannot find their way to create (music), complain about the tools. Thus will it ever be. Humans are really that predictable. |
So do those who can, I should know.
Kind Regards,
AMR
http://www.alvaromrocha.com |
That really doesn't make sense. If one is creating fulfilling music, there's no reason to complain. Unless, that is, one is not satisfied with one's musical creations. There, again, the problem is personal.
I can make make music with a piece of string. But I bet there are people who would vent angrily at a piece of string that thwarted their genius. |
I'm quite satisfied with my creations, just not satisfied - at all - with the time they took due to Kronos not performing as it should. Time is money.
Kronos is suposed to be very spontaenous and rewarding, which it is, and second to none, just as long as you stay from anything other than merely playing... Otherwise, for the time being, either get a DAW, a therapist or a punching bag, the later being my "workaround" of choice.
Hoping it gets sorted in future updates though.
Kind Regards,
AMR
http://www.alvaromrocha.com |
If, for you, time is money, why are spending any of your precious time complaining here? Make more music. It'll be time well spent.
But since you are here, complaining, are we to gather that you've run out of inspiration, at least as far as a Kronos might induce? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
.Jens
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 383
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| zengomi wrote: |
I can make make music with a piece of string. But I bet there are people who would vent angrily at a piece of string that thwarted their genius. |
The one has little to do with the other. I also can make music with the K or any piece of litter wich makes some sound. And I am really happy with the outstanding sound and possibilities the Kronos offers.
Nevertheless I can complain about some software bugs which scramble up my programs if I am not extremely careful, ruining some work or leaving me fearful, if the device will reboot or not during a live session.
For example, recently I discovered that after synchronizing the contents of the Kronos with the editor and rearranging some user(!) programs within U-EE and U-FF, two of the original presets sound extremely strange, and in a factory preset wave sequence, which I never touched willingly, one of the evolving pad sounds was replaced by a dry piano "ping" like in an initialized HD1-Program.
These kinds of bugs have nothing to do with a lack of creativity! They are just annoying.
BTW: I assume the reason for this is the plain SysEx-Communication between the editor and the K. Is there any kind of checksum? Or will disturbed data result in broken programs necessarily? I assume the latter, as MIDI itself does not contain a reliable error correction management, AFAIK.
What happens if an indended "7f" becomes "7g" by accident? Will the Kronos recognize the error? Will it complain and forget about the erroneous data? Will it request the data again? Will it restore the previous version - or will it stay in an inconsistent state?
I assume the latter - and decided not to use the editor again until it is really stable. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zengomi
Full Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2011
Posts: 120
Location: Tokyo
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| .Jens wrote: | | zengomi wrote: |
I can make make music with a piece of string. But I bet there are people who would vent angrily at a piece of string that thwarted their genius. |
The one has little to do with the other. I also can make music with the K or any piece of litter wich makes some sound. And I am really happy with the outstanding sound and possibilities the Kronos offers.
Nevertheless I can complain about some software bugs which scramble up my programs if I am not extremely careful, ruining some work or leaving me fearful, if the device will reboot or not during a live session.
For example, recently I discovered that after synchronizing the contents of the Kronos with the editor and rearranging some user(!) programs within U-EE and U-FF, two of the original presets sound extremely strange, and in a factory preset wave sequence, which I never touched willingly, one of the evolving pad sounds was replaced by a dry piano "ping" like in an initialized HD1-Program.
These kinds of bugs have nothing to do with a lack of creativity! They are just annoying.
BTW: I assume the reason for this is the plain SysEx-Communication between the editor and the K. Is there any kind of checksum? Or will disturbed data result in broken programs necessarily? I assume the latter, as MIDI itself does not contain a reliable error correction management, AFAIK.
What happens if an indended "7f" becomes "7g" by accident? Will the Kronos recognize the error? Will it complain and forget about the erroneous data? Will it request the data again? Will it restore the previous version - or will it stay in an inconsistent state?
I assume the latter - and decided not to use the editor again until it is really stable. |
Yes, yes. You are contributing to debugging software. Let's hope that doesn't undermine your artistry. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AMR
Junior Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 86
Location: Lisbon, Portugal... Mostly.
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| zengomi wrote: |
| AMR wrote: |
I'm quite satisfied with my creations, just not satisfied - at all - with the time they took due to Kronos not performing as it should. Time is money.
Kronos is suposed to be very spontaenous and rewarding, which it is, and second to none, just as long as you stay from anything other than merely playing... Otherwise, for the time being, either get a DAW, a therapist or a punching bag, the later being my "workaround" of choice.
Hoping it gets sorted in future updates though.
Kind Regards,
AMR
http://www.alvaromrocha.com |
If, for you, time is money, why are spending any of your precious time complaining here? Make more music. It'll be time well spent.
But since you are here, complaining, are we to gather that you've run out of inspiration, at least as far as a Kronos might induce? |
Not complaining, stating facts.
When inspiration meets technical slowdowns, it equals frustration and lost time which, as you well put it, should be put to better use.
Since I'm not using the Kronos at the moment (working towards actually having a life), there's loads of time to, let's say, be here (which reminds me to review the getting a life issue), and all that instead of chasing incomprehensible bugs.
To give you an ideia, a music that should take me half an hour to multi-track, mix and master took 3 days (!) of working workarounds on this, then that, then another that, on kronos until giving up and feeding the thing to the DAW in pure audio so no more weird MIDI self-awareness and rebellion would come up. Hooking to a DAW is which most do anyway (or using it as a superb preset sound engine), hence the apparent lack of rant.
Not a problem to me, but not suposed to be so, considering the price, the concept and the potential of that machine.
Dig deeper, really way deeper into the Kronos and you'll surely know what I mean. Wouldn't trade it for anything though.
Kind Regards,
AMR
http://www.alvaromrocha.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
.Jens
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 383
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| zengomi wrote: |
Yes, yes. You are contributing to debugging software. Let's hope that doesn't undermine your artistry. |
What the ... ?? 
Hey, dude: I'm just using the instrument as it is supposed to be. I'm playing a lot , and I'm NOT willingly trying to reveal any new bugs. But if I am making music, I eventually come up with the need to modify some of the sounds or create new ones that I like. I make regular backups to save my work.
But when I'm in rehearsal with my band and suddenly one of the programs I need sounds like crap, which it never did before, i say, this is annoying. Really.
I am really happy with my instrument, but the latest software update is a huge step back.
Know what? Go on playing with the factory presets alone. Or even better: Save the money, sell the Kronos and get a rompler. It seems pretty enough for your artistry. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zengomi
Full Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2011
Posts: 120
Location: Tokyo
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| AMR wrote: | | zengomi wrote: |
| AMR wrote: |
I'm quite satisfied with my creations, just not satisfied - at all - with the time they took due to Kronos not performing as it should. Time is money.
Kronos is suposed to be very spontaenous and rewarding, which it is, and second to none, just as long as you stay from anything other than merely playing... Otherwise, for the time being, either get a DAW, a therapist or a punching bag, the later being my "workaround" of choice.
Hoping it gets sorted in future updates though.
Kind Regards,
AMR
http://www.alvaromrocha.com |
If, for you, time is money, why are spending any of your precious time complaining here? Make more music. It'll be time well spent.
But since you are here, complaining, are we to gather that you've run out of inspiration, at least as far as a Kronos might induce? |
Not complaining, stating facts.
When inspiration meets technical slowdowns, it equals frustration and lost time which, as you well put it, should be put to better use.
Since I'm not using the Kronos at the moment (working towards actually having a life), there's loads of time to, let's say, be here (which reminds me to review the getting a life issue), and all that instead of chasing incomprehensible bugs.
To give you an ideia, a music that should take me half an hour to multi-track, mix and master took 3 days (!) of working workarounds on this, then that, then another that, on kronos until giving up and feeding the thing to the DAW in pure audio so no more weird MIDI self-awareness and rebellion would come up. Hooking to a DAW is which most do anyway (or using it as a superb preset sound engine), hence the apparent lack of rant.
Not a problem to me, but not suposed to be so, considering the price, the concept and the potential of that machine.
Dig deeper, really way deeper into the Kronos and you'll surely know what I mean. Wouldn't trade it for anything though.
Kind Regards,
AMR
http://www.alvaromrocha.com |
For clarity's sake, are you saying that you expect your Kronos to function like your DAW? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zengomi
Full Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2011
Posts: 120
Location: Tokyo
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
In the meantime....
tools are the measure of the artist, insofar as he embraces them unquestionably. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
.Jens
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 383
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| zengomi wrote: |
tools are the measure of the artist, insofar as he embraces them unquestionably. |
...said the photographer, whose camera decided to delete two or three of the best shots of the century. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AMR
Junior Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 86
Location: Lisbon, Portugal... Mostly.
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| zengomi wrote: |
For clarity's sake, are you saying that you expect your Kronos to function like your DAW? |
Nope, I expect Kronos to function as it says it does, as it's suposed to do.
Thus making me not having to resort to my DAW until much later in the process, among other things.
Kind Regards,
AMR
http://www.alvaromrocha.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zengomi
Full Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2011
Posts: 120
Location: Tokyo
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| .Jens wrote: | | zengomi wrote: |
tools are the measure of the artist, insofar as he embraces them unquestionably. |
...said the photographer, whose camera decided to delete two or three of the best shots of the century. |
hahaha. What a contrived situation. If that photographer had any sort vision that a camera could convey, he'd simply shoot and shoot and shoot. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zengomi
Full Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2011
Posts: 120
Location: Tokyo
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| AMR wrote: | | zengomi wrote: |
For clarity's sake, are you saying that you expect your Kronos to function like your DAW? |
Nope, I expect Kronos to function as it says it does, as it's suposed to do.
Thus making me not having to resort to my DAW until much later in the process, among other things.
Kind Regards,
AMR
http://www.alvaromrocha.com |
What exactly what did you expect the Kronos to do that it did not?
And, on the creative/artistic side, may we hear what it was that you failed to realize on your Kronos but accomplished on your DAW? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AMR
Junior Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 86
Location: Lisbon, Portugal... Mostly.
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| zengomi wrote: | | AMR wrote: | | zengomi wrote: |
For clarity's sake, are you saying that you expect your Kronos to function like your DAW? |
Nope, I expect Kronos to function as it says it does, as it's suposed to do.
Thus making me not having to resort to my DAW until much later in the process, among other things.
Kind Regards,
AMR
http://www.alvaromrocha.com |
What exactly what did you expect the Kronos to do that it did not?
And, on the creative/artistic side, may we hear what it was that you failed to realize on your Kronos but accomplished on your DAW? |
1 - In a nutshell, for the particular musical theme mentioned
a) sound shifted an octave when played back in sequencer for no reason (the SW2, assigned to octave change, did not performed any change in sequencer mode)
b) sequencer cutted lenght of key-ON events during playback (but never during the first one, only after leaving sequencer mode)
c) karma patterns messed up upon playback (never sounded the same, there's no random seeding in the patch)
d) karma messed up upon patch editing, changing erratically (used public workaround)
e) after all worked around (lowered patch an octave, punched in the early-release parts, etc.) still got erratic playback behaviour, sometimes played ok, sometimes messed it up (further cutting lenght of KEY-ON events and Karma not acting as it did upon recording)
Going through the manuals, the behaviour was not to be expected. Finally quited and went for the DAW for speed, though I think sooner or later I'd workaround the Kronos enough to get the work done. Time was an issue.
2 - Expected Korg to do proper clean no-sweat direct Sequencing, which in this particular case, it didn't, big time! The one feeling artistic was the Kronos, everytime I pressed Play.
Kind Regards,
AMR
http://www.alvaromrocha.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
.Jens
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 383
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Are you using 1.6 or 1.5? I'm about to go back to the prev version - more music, less tech talk.
BTW: Save the time trying to explain something to a weirdo, who just wants to flurry people. It's not worth it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zengomi
Full Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2011
Posts: 120
Location: Tokyo
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| AMR wrote: | | zengomi wrote: | | AMR wrote: | | zengomi wrote: |
For clarity's sake, are you saying that you expect your Kronos to function like your DAW? |
Nope, I expect Kronos to function as it says it does, as it's suposed to do.
Thus making me not having to resort to my DAW until much later in the process, among other things.
Kind Regards,
AMR
http://www.alvaromrocha.com |
What exactly what did you expect the Kronos to do that it did not?
And, on the creative/artistic side, may we hear what it was that you failed to realize on your Kronos but accomplished on your DAW? |
1 - In a nutshell, for the particular musical theme mentioned
a) sound shifted an octave when played back in sequencer for no reason (the SW2, assigned to octave change, did not performed any change in sequencer mode)
b) sequencer cutted lenght of key-ON events during playback (but never during the first one, only after leaving sequencer mode)
c) karma patterns messed up upon playback (never sounded the same, there's no random seeding in the patch)
d) karma messed up upon patch editing, changing erratically (used public workaround)
e) after all worked around (lowered patch an octave, punched in the early-release parts, etc.) still got erratic playback behaviour, sometimes played ok, sometimes messed it up (further cutting lenght of KEY-ON events and Karma not acting as it did upon recording)
Going through the manuals, the behaviour was not to be expected. Finally quited and went for the DAW for speed, though I think sooner or later I'd workaround the Kronos enough to get the work done. Time was an issue.
2 - Expected Korg to do proper clean no-sweat direct Sequencing, which in this particular case, it didn't, big time! The one feeling artistic was the Kronos, everytime I pressed Play.
Kind Regards,
AMR
http://www.alvaromrocha.com |
If you still have the Kronos song file, I'd be happy to "test" it on my K-73. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
