Sequencer might be good for demo's... but thats about it.

Discussion relating to the Korg Oasys Workstation.

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Charlie
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Post by Charlie »

Phew - a long thread ... :roll:

I would like to know if there are actual plans to improve/change the oasys-sequencer substantially? [-o<

I used Notator/Creator, TS10-Sequ. and Cubase during the last 20 years. I bought the Oasys to have what its name says: an open architecture synthesis STUDIO. The sound is magnificent, Karma is fun and inspiring - but the sequencer drives me crazy. I've never experienced such a hard time getting used to a concept. Perhaps its intuitive to some people - but certainly not to me (and I didn't have such problems with the sequs mentioned above). :-k
I ended up like some here already suggested: record MIDI with an external computer and load that back into the Oasys. But this is far from my original intentions. :cry:

PS: I've tested the Oasys sequencer befor I bought - and although I knew after that test that this sequencer will be my "musical Waterloo" the Sound + Karma + Hardware made it worth for me. :wink:
zampanò
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Post by zampanò »

Hi everybody, just add my comments: I've been very deceived too by Oasys' sequencer which I find totally under-dimensioned respect the price of this complex workstation.
:evil:
It's now worth paying 6500 euros for this small crap of sequencer. The rest is great: the sound, karma, real time controllers... but the sequencer.... :3devil:
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Kontrol49
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Post by Kontrol49 »

The sequencer is my only gripe to not buying the Oasys thus far,whilst I love my Tritons/Trinity sequencers,I've found that I've outgrown them in terms of features etc for more fully featured software expansions,

I thought that the O would have a more featured sequencer kind of like in the respects of Maybe Cubase lines and possibly a more graphical interface to which drag and drop cut and paste etc in a more intuitive way given that the heart of the O is software based,maybe Korg will improve on it and make it more feature laiden,I have no gripes with the Triton sequencer and invariably still do use it as a sketch pad,and love the Cue list and RPPR functions as this allows me to get ideas down easily and be able to change them around without too much fuss should i need to change the structre of the songs,But in hindsight I'd like to see vast superior improvements to the O's sequencer before i shell out the Money.


On the demos of Stephen Kay and others ,I am more than sold on its abilities and could probably get by with the mediocre sequencer via software,and given that I'm inbred with Korg sequencers will more than feel at home with the Oasys,but again its defeating the whole object of what I want from Oasys,I want to be able to ditch my software and most of my Hardware to contain it all in a workstation platform,the Oasys is the type of machine i have been waiting for all my musical life,but sadly the upgraded sequencer platform is all that is missing...

I'm sure that Korg will readdress the issue taken into consideration its Open architecture,Like Daz has said in a previous post I don't think people have issues with the sequencer on Triton as its pretty easy to use and maybe most people have like me, married both the Multitimbral sets of the Triton seq to an External seq platform,and Korg obviously see that the Triton/Trinity platform worked for a lot of people so the Oasys was the next step,but sadly they need to build on the strengths of Triton and make the Oasys the next superior chapter in workstation sequencers and not just fit it with a supercharged engine with the same gearbox from an Older car,it need to have it own version to take it to the next step..
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chordial
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Post by chordial »

Very well written Kontrol49,

I would also like to take the leap, but as song club taught me, I need the extra sequencer facilities, and would rather not rely on an external sequencer for editing etc.

I hope the guys who can .... do :)

Regards Simon
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beyarecords
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Post by beyarecords »

Hi,
Linux operating system. 1 to 2 Gigs of internal RAM. What's all this talk of the sequener being hardware based? With that lovely screen korg really do need to be addressing this sequencer issue very seriously! I see no technical reason why a sequencer, ala cubase/performer, could not be developed for the Oasys. What is the issue here? This is the sole factor which prevents me from shelling out £5,400 for this machine. For the asking price KORG really need to bring this feature upto par and ASAP!!!

Blessings and Love

Beya
Kevin Nolan
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Post by Kevin Nolan »

Hi beyarechords -

You are correct of course; and all the valid arguements have been given here for a better sequencer. You'll get no disagreement for your point among oasys users.

However - if this truly is your sole reason for not buying an oasys - I can tell you most earnestly that you are loosing on this one. I genuinely mean it. I recommend that you browse the many other posts on this forum, and you will find universal and overwhelming praise for this instrument.

There is no amount of superlatives or feature lists that I can type that will convince you to buy one. Suffice it to say that it is among the most impressive synthesizer/workstations ever built. It is a joy and pleasure to use, and its capabilities are truly awesone. But then it goes further. So extensive is its feature set that the whole is vastly greater than the sum of the parts.

Im my case - I can tell you that one year on I'm still scratching the surface with this instrument. But - and this is a significant but in my case - I am now, only recently, beginning to truly explore the OASYS in ways appropriate to the way I compose - using Combis in subtle and particular ways for live playing and realtime composing - and in this the OASYS is fantastic because it can handle such incredible demands. No doubt every user on this forum will have similar experiences of ways of moulding OASYS to their approach to music.

I say all this because - if you really are holding back because of the sequencer - I tell you you are crazy !!! :-). Get the hell out to your nearest KORG dealer and order yourself the best synthesizer to come along in years.

cheers,
Kevin.
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beyarecords
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Post by beyarecords »

Hi Kevin,
thank you so much for your reply. In reference to the sequencer, it so happens to be a major part of my current workflow. You will get no argument from me in terms of the sonic innovations that lay beneath the hood, but I am buying into the 'Workstation' concept and not just the fact that it sounds beautiful, which of course I also want!

I want to be able to record into the sequencer a specified number of bars, be able to copy and paste that sequnce if I so choose, and be able to assign each played/sequenced part to its own individual output so as to be able to route that into my mix desk. This whole process should just be intuitive and not convoluted, and more importantly for the label this machine carries 'worlds greatest Workstation', it should be doable!! Do I ask for too much here?!?

Blessings and Love

Beya
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Post by Mike Conway »

beyarecords wrote:In reference to the sequencer, it so happens to be a major part of my current workflow.
Mine, too. It may not have near the bells and whistles of Sonar, but I've been using the OASYS sequencer, exclusively, for the past year. If you bother learning it, it can do just about whatever you want.

My favorite hardware sequencer was the one in my Roland Fantom. Yes, 16 channels, per each Phrase track. However, it could only hold one Song. OASYS holds 200 Songs. When I sold my Fantom, I put 100 of its old songs into the OASYS. I can load them all at once.

What OASYS has over other hardware sequencers, is the advantage of the OASYS hardware interface of sliders, pots and switches. Unlike the Triton, it can record far more types of events. Thank KARMA for that implementation.

Let's say you record a synth line, but you want to play with its attack and release, filter, etc. Switch modes to Tone Adjust and you can add these in realtime to your sequence. Oh wait - was there a screw up? If you hit the wrong parameters, do you have to record from scratch? No. Press COMPARE and the sequence reverts to your original note data. Your performance is safe, now ride those parameters, again.

16 track limitation? Read this thread:

Multiple Combis to HDR tracks


The sequencer is tied into the HD recording functions, which can make it not so intuitive. On the plus side, you get way more functionality than say, a stand alone VS 1680. Everything can be automated - Effects' levels/switching, mixer sliders and pots. It can be as dynamic as you want.


Of course, if you want to keep it all in the MIDI domain, you can apply some workarounds, to achieve more sounds. You can set up various Left/Right combos, like tremolo strings left, on track 1; tremolo strings right, on track 2. How often are you using tremolo in that song? Insert a program change and put Brass or a Flute and Clarinet in those slots. You can even switch out FX. Take advantage of the many Song slots to keep your original setup, in a different slot, in case you need to revert.



beyarecords wrote:I want to be able to record into the sequencer a specified number of bars, be able to copy and paste that sequnce if I so choose
Image


With COPY TRACKS (TRACK EDIT tab, then drop-down menu options), you can copy whole songs or individual tracks, at whatever measures you specify. Until we get a Cue List function, this is very handy.

If you want to work on Intro, Chorus, Bridge, Ending, then copy the same Song setup to 4 different Song slots. Now, work on the individual parts and use COPY TRACKS to move them wherever you want.

beyarecords wrote:and be able to assign each played/sequenced part to its own individual output so as to be able to route that into my mix desk.


Absolutely doable! You can send sounds directly to any output, without Effects...

Image


...Or, with Effects:

Image


Please read this thread, which covers that:

Routing to 8 outputs


beyarecords wrote:This whole process should just be intuitive and not convoluted, and more importantly for the label this machine carries 'worlds greatest Workstation', it should be doable!! Do I ask for too much here?!?
It is doable and the OASYS can be a great workstation, if you learn it. I won't say that it is intuitive, though, I had the advantage of coming from the Triton Classic and Extreme, so the workflow used the same logic.

Also, I do agree with a lot of user's request for sequencer enhancements. I want to see the screen follow the song data, left to right, the way a Roland or Yamaha sequencer scrolls. I want better Velocity and Gate options.

I certainly get what I want done, using MIDI EVENT EDIT. I use the filter, so I see NOTES only, which makes it a lot easier to get around. If I want to adjust a Sustain command, I can similarly check, just CONTROL CHANGE. But, yeah - some things could be improved.
Last edited by Mike Conway on Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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beyarecords
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Post by beyarecords »

Hi Mike,
the information you provided was very helpful. Many thanks.

Blessings and Love

Beya
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Charlie
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Post by Charlie »

@Mike: Thank you for this usefull tipps! :D
And I have to agree: the sequencer is not as bad as it seems in the beginning. The biggest disadvantage for Oasysy-Beginners (like me :wink: ) is that you have to sit down and really learn this type of sequencer. It's not intuitive at all and you hardly can use past-time experience of Cubase or whatever. But once you've started to get into the sequencer you realize its perhaps not the optimum solution but one you can work with well. For me the biggest advantage is exactly the workstation-issue: you switch on your Oasys and have everything you need to make nice music - no computer, no lags, no external mixers/effects, no XP-updates, no drivers ... just focus on making your music! :mrgreen:
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Post by beyarecords »

Hi Charlie,
Charlie wrote:It's not intuitive at all and you hardly can use past-time experience of Cubase or whatever. But once you've started to get into the sequencer you realize its perhaps not the optimum solution...
£5,399 and not optimum! Isn't that like buying a Rolls Royce and being told that :

'only 3 of the 4 available wheels function as you would expect. In fact if all occupants of the car lean to one side, the side away from where there is no wheel, you'll find that you'll get to your destination eventually...a bit of a work round we know, but doable non the less!'

What part of Rolls and Royce am I not getting here!?! ;-)

Anyways, I've got my demo for an 88 key version tomorrow afternoon..

Blessings and Love

Beya
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Post by Mike Conway »

Charlie wrote:The biggest disadvantage for Oasysy-Beginners (like me :wink: ) is that you have to sit down and really learn this type of sequencer.
I'll definitely cover it, in the tutorial, along with routings and busses. Once you get your head around all that, the machine is quite flexible.

you switch on your Oasys and have everything you need to make nice music - no computer, no lags, no external mixers/effects, no XP-updates, no drivers ... just focus on making your music!
Yes, the amount of effects processors, bus options, number of synths and polyphony really make it possible, with just the OASYS. You can sing along with your song, record your voice in isolation (or with the instruments), etc.
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Charlie
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Post by Charlie »

@Beyarecirds: hey, you left out some of my words in your quote!! :wink:
Yes - I agree. It's definitely not a Rolls Royce sequencer regarding intuitive handling. But regarding functionality and integration its a great tool. Like I mentioned befor: getting into it is the real issue.

@Mike: I'm very much looking forward to your DVD!! Especially the routing/busses-issue is a tricky thing once you get started.
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Post by beyarecords »

Hi Charlie,
Charlie wrote:hey, you left out some of my words in your quote!!
I believe in the Journalistic world it is known as artistic license! :wink:

Blessings and Love

Beya
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Post by Derm »

But regarding functionality and integration its a great tool
I nearly choked on my porridge :shock: . A great tool? Compared to what?
It could be a great tool. I am afraid that users will get complacent and accept the way the sequencer is. Its usually newcomers or prospective buyers who complain the most. I live in hope and expectation of change.
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