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[tunaman]

I’m working on a new voice for a song we are taking on, and I found that the Custom Clay Knob5,6 Program (I-C060) is a good starting point.

I opened a new Init combi and copied from Program, including IFX/MFX/TFX, but the wah effect is not the same. I have knob 5 turned all the way down, and knob 6 turned all the way up, and I get a good wah effect from the Program but not from the new Combination.

I’ve compared the settings from the insert effects (Stereo Limiter, Stereo Flanger and Stereo Wah/Auto Wah) and the parameters and settings are identical.

I then tried copying the Program to a new Program, and the effects work correctly.

Any idea why they work properly in the Program but not in the Combination? I’m stumped right now.

EDIT: stupid spell check converted wah to way...

[GregC]

likely the 3 band EQ in the Program is not coming over. Thats typical

Add it as an FX in your Combi. Try to figure how to match it by viewing the 3 band EQ visual in the Program

And make sure, you ticked all the applicable boxes in the Copy form

Just for fun, add Karma, too
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[tunaman]

I’m not sure how the three band EQ would have any influence on the wah effect, but I’ll double check since you mentioned it Greg.

And as I mentioned, I copied the IFX/MFX/TFX (check boxes) when copying the Program - some other check box(es) I’m missing?

I’ve copied a lot of programs to combi’s Before to create my own layers, and haven’t had any such issues aside from the order of precedence and impact of MFX and TFX conflicts, but I’ve always been able to resolve them by changing the order of the timbres and modifying the Insert effects to overcome challenges with conflicting Master and Total effects.

This issue seems to me to be a bug of some sort.

[GregC]

I missed the "wah " bit in your post, sorry

Press SW1 /button , light

Thats your Wah.

that works perfect when I copy to a Combi slot

I see the problem with manual control of Knob 5
in the copied combi. Thats not coming over.

Its some parameter in the Al1 or how the Stereo Wah FX interacts with the program. And assigning it to Knob 5.

Its about 45 minutes of research and I don't have the time to dig under the hood today

Maybe someone can nail it for you.

I call this a bug. If anyone else agrees, it should be added to the " Top 50 Most Wanted " list
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Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994

[tunaman]

No worries - thanks for taking some time to look into it, and I appreciate your findings.

Knob 5 does have some effect in the Combi, just not the same and the level of wah in particular is not as pronounced (which is the desired end result).

I may just have to play with the FX parameters for the AutoWah and see if I can get the same level of emphasis somehow.

[Sweat]

Although your effects parameter may be ok, Greg could be correct about the 3 band EQ. You may want to check. An different EQ may cause a different timbre, thus a different sounding wah effect.

When doing 'Copy from Program', one thing to be aware of is the 3 Band Parametric EQ. This EQ exists in all HD-1 and EXi programs alike. However, unlike other program parameters that are reference by the combi, this EQ is copied (and stored) to the combi only if the 'Auto Load Prog EQ' is On. If Off, and the timbre has different EQ settings, the program may not sound the same. It is found on the Combi Timbre EQ tab, and thankfully, the default is on. Though it is good to be aware of.

[tunaman]

Thanks Sweat. I worked with it again last night, and just checked the option as suggested (it is indeed enabled) and the EQ settings are being copied over.

I may have to bail on that program and try to find another suitable candidate and see if the behavior is different.

These rat holes are pure time sinks - I can often get caught up for a couple of hours just going through trying to find the right sound as a starting point to layer in.

I guess it’s better than the countless hours I’ve spent experimenting with creating a sound from scratch, though - my hat is off to those of you like Dave who can just start with a blank canvas and work through it methodically.

[GregC]

[alland]

There are few things about copying IFX between program and combi that may solve your "mystery"
1) Seems that FX COmmon LFO settings are not copied - may be a bug. In your "wah" effect common LFO 1 is used to create effect and in order to replicate effect from Program to Combi you need manually adjust Common LFO 1 settings in Combi IFX.
2) In program mode, when you choose/change program, knobs always are set to "RT Knobs/KARMA" mode and transmit MIDI (including Knob 5 CC#17) that controls Stereo Wah/Auto Wah effect Dry/Wet ratio thus allowing increase/decrease Wah effect.
When you are in combi mode, ensure that you are in "RT Knobs/KARMA" mode so that knobs 5-8 transmit midi CC, also in IFX section (including Common FX LFO) there is Midi Channel parameter (noted as "Ch") - ensure that this is set to Global channel (or alternatively midi channel that is set your Global channel in Globa MIDI settings). This is because controller signals (such as knobs CC, aftertouch, etc) are transmitted on Gch.

Keeping in mind that possible bug 1) and ensuring all is OK with MIDI routing as described 2) I was able to replicate Program "wah" effect in Combi too
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[tunaman]

Thanks alland. I’ll take a look at the LFO settings again later today, but just to be clear the “wah” effect IS present in the Combi, but the sound isn’t identical between the Program and Combi.

If I turn knob 5 all the way to the left, and knob 6 all the way to the right, the timbre seems to have different filter/envelope characteristics. The particular audio characteristics generated in the Program with those settings is pretty close to the sound I, going for in this specific case.

I appreciate the input.