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Which analog to complement Kronos?
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amit
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too am looking for some deep / punchy low end demo of DM12
Am myself torn between DM12 or a sub 37 (i know two very different beasts)
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psionic311
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently got a Prophet 12 module. I like the bi-timbral capability, the small form factor, the intuitive menu, and the variety of waveforms thanks to the digital oscillators. I'm still trying to appreciate the Curtis filters, which are found in the DSI Tetra, Prophet 08, and Prophet 12, as well as the legendary Oberheim OB-Xa. It's predecessor, the OB-X (Jump!) had SEM filters, and the new OB-6 uses discrete analog filters.

I did raw oscillator and filter comparisons with the Kronos AL-1, my Minitaur, and my Micron. Moog was raw, dry, fat, and full, as expected. The P12m sawtooths were buzzy but variable, yet somehow the least satisfying.

The AL-1 filters were pretty good in comparison, and of course the Moog 4 pole was full, smooth, thick, and musical. On the P12m Curtis filters there was the ever present upper mid range resonant or fruity or nasal character that is challenging to work out, and for some vintage sounds it gets in the way more often than not. Most crucially, it is difficult to dial in thick bottom bass with that low mid punch. The envelopes also always re-trigger after every new note, so it's not possible to get that legato expressiveness like in Lucky Man, Frankenstein, etc.

I've had 2 surprising takeaways from these comparisons. First, the Kronos is no slouch when it comes to analog re-creations. But I got an analog because I'm looking for that elusive organic sound that I seem unable to pull out of the Kronos easily, but that may be due to my limitations more than those of the Kronos. But overall, the K does do well with both the AL-1 and the Poly six.

Second, the Micron engine is amazingly satisfying. Its raw oscillators are organic and variable, and those 19 filter types really shine and make the creative process fun and productive. The Akai Miniak / Micron template for MIDI Designer on the iPad makes programming and experimentation a breeze. And the audio INs prove that plain raw oscillators come to life when put through outstanding filters and envelopes. Ditto for Minitaur.

Bottom line: I'm still working with the P12m trying to work with its uniqueness as another tool in my arsenal. Yet somehow I still have GAS for those non-Curtis, discrete filters in the DSI Prophet 6 and OB-6 modules. I'm thinking of returning the P12m for the OB-6 module, but it's pricey, and I'll miss the Curtis touch and the bi-timbrality.

The Micron 8 voice engine may end up in my live rig, despite its toyish look. I also heard the Radias has great vintage sound capability.

Case in point to the OP: don't be too quick to dismiss VA synths.
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Bald Eagle
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For an analog mono synth the Sub 37 is a great choice. If you want a hybrid poly synth that's completely different than any of the Kronos engines the Prophet 12 can do some amazing things. I have both and they both very good at what they do.

The DM12 and Rev 2 are also worth looking at for analog poly. I'm leaning towards the Rev 2 but since it's not even available yet it's to soon to tell.
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont think i would add an analogue synth... Nord lead 4, Access Virus TI2, and Roland System 8 would be on my list..


But then that is not the question, at the current prices the behringer would be high on my list because the yamaha CS 80 is just to big and to hard to get..
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ferchis
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry to intrude, what about the KingKorg? is it any good on this respect?
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RKfan
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris wrote:
A lot of votes for the P6.

Nobody did try the DSI Pro 2 ? Interested to know if this would be a good analog complement to Kronos...


I have both the Kronos and the DSI Pro-2 - they work great together. In terms of usability the PRO-2 is absolutely brilliant - you can get some really great sounds out of it - especially good features are the 2 filters, character section, distortion and the 4 delays!! I also have a Sub 37 which I have not had long - but is also really good (prefer the Pro-2 since more versatile). The trouble is because I am a tweaker more than a player; I find I turn to the analogues before the Kronos - they are much more immediate.

I had thought about getting the Odyssey - but without memories - even if it sounds brilliant - it wasn't for me.

One thing I haven't tried but would be great is to play the analogues through the Kronos' effects. However, would need to be careful since both the Pro-2 and the Sub 37 push out a lot of signal.
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RKfan
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris wrote:
A lot of votes for the P6.

Nobody did try the DSI Pro 2 ? Interested to know if this would be a good analog complement to Kronos...


I have both the Kronos and the DSI Pro-2 - they work great together. In terms of usability the PRO-2 is absolutely brilliant - you can get some really great sounds out of it - especially good features are the 2 filters, character section, distortion and the 4 delays!! I also have a Sub 37 which I have not had long - but is also really good (prefer the Pro-2 since more versatile). The trouble is because I am a tweaker more than a player; I find I turn to the analogues before the Kronos - they are much more immediate.

I had thought about getting the Odyssey - but without memories - even if it sounds brilliant - it wasn't for me.

One thing I haven't tried but would be great is to play the analogues through the Kronos' effects. However, would need to be careful since both the Pro-2 and the Sub 37 push out a lot of signal.
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jeremykeys
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ferchis wrote:
sorry to intrude, what about the KingKorg? is it any good on this respect?


That's the one that I use. I keep forgetting just how good it is until I start fooling around with it. I really like the tones but it is VA.

@ Chris, I think a lot of this depends on your budget. If you could give us a rough idea that might help us to help you.
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chris
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear all,

Thank you very much for your inputs. The discussion takes an interesting turn.

I'm both a player and a sound designer. Have managed to program some interesting sounds out of the AL-1 but still trying to look for another warm analog sound especially in the lower end of the spectrum.

I have owned some VA such as Nord Lead 2X (great sound but not so versatile) and the Blofeld that I still own but would not be my primer choice for classic analog emulation (still a very good complement to the Kronos but with limitations).

Some VA do a very good job indeed but I'm looking for sound that is more "alive ". I think that the discussion above helps to make a first selection.

As said, I don't want to put more than 1400 euro on an analog beast (either new or used).
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Bertotti
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you adverse to a AU/VST? I wanted some Oberheim so I downloaded the demo of OP-X Pro-2. I am fairly impressed it sounds as good as it does. If that would work for you it could be a cheap way for the OB sound. Just a thought.
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chris
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the OP-X sounds great, indeed. By the way, I tend to rely more on hardware...
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Bertotti
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris wrote:
Yeah, the OP-X sounds great, indeed. By the way, I tend to rely more on hardware...


I understand, I like Opx because it will hold me over until I can get an OB6! I really prefer having knobs and slider to work with then clicking and dragging on a screen as well. Good luck in your search.
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Mike Conway
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

psionic311 wrote:
I've had 2 surprising takeaways from these comparisons. First, the Kronos is no slouch when it comes to analog re-creations.


Agreed. Here is a video doing some similar comparison with the DeepMind12 and Kronos. Bottom line: Kronos can do more, just in AL-1, but the DeepMind12 is more organic with how it handles unison and some other functions. The filter on it is killer.

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chini
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:06 am    Post subject: Andromeda & Pulse 2 Reply with quote

Aside from a few rack digital synths in my live rig, on the analogue side I now use a Waldorf Pulse 2 for a lot of mono lead work and the occasional pad sound utilising its paraphonic mode (up to 8 voice). Its a very versatile little analogue that can sound anything from angelic to majestic/strident to down right mean and dirty! It's also nice and compact and sits quite comfortably above the vector leaver on my Kronos 88 key. The Pulse 2 is also a hell of a lot cheaper than a lot of the synths suggested in this thread! Furthermore with the recent OS 3.1 resolving the extraneous noises that were occurring on the K inputs I can now plug it neatly into the Kronos where I can add custom effects to the Pulse 2 per patch harnessing the routing options found in the K's audio input FX routing page.

Contrarily the other analogue I use along with my Kronos is the Alesis Andromeda which needs no introduction.

One thing I will say about it is that anybody who suggests the Andromeda is cold, without character, mushy sounding or any of the other myriad of negative descriptions I've read on the net, simply hasn't had the patience to discover how to produce the vast sound capabilities it was designed for. So many former owners have also ignored the well documented "tips & tricks" addendum to the original manual which, amongst many other great things, points out all the particular volume level relations that should be adhered to through various points in the Andromeda's signal path. These specific "sweet spot" volume levels are important because they tame the prowess this beautiful musical instrument has as a master of analogue sonics and a true source of extremely musical inspiration for the discerning programmer. The Andromda's only downside is not the synth itself but sourcing spare parts should the machine ever need repairing. Having said this I've had mine since new (2008), use it pretty much every day and I've never had a problem with it.

In my opinion the Andromeda is certainly the most comprehensively equipped analogue synth ever made with a very pleasing character that can also emulate many classic analogues with careful programming. Dave Smith has just brought out the Rev 2 in 16 note poly but merely its lack of free-running envelopes is one of the many advanced features available on the Andromeda that set it apart from any other analogue synth ever made. I was surprised to find that even the recent OB-6 does not support the free-running ENVs that Mr Oberheim would often implement in a lot of his previous designs. The "hold" function on the OB-6 is not the same thing as free-run because when the signal reaches the end of the sustain time the sound simply laches infinitely until you turn the hold switch off.

Some of the analogue polys I have owned and used extensively at one time or another are the Prophet T8/VS, Roland MKS 80/70/50, Oberheim Matrix 12/6r/1000, Ensoniq ESQ-M, Korg Poly800/EX800/8000, Waldorf Microwave. They all have their own character but the Andromeda is vast enough to cover them sonically getting close enough on the occasions when I seek something of the original timbre but certainly by far outplays any of them for sheer programmability.
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Last edited by chini on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mike Conway
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:55 am    Post subject: Re: Andromeda & Pulse 2 Reply with quote

chini wrote:
I now use a Waldorf Pulse 2 for a lot of mono lead work and the occasional pad sound utilising its paraphonic mode (up to 8 voice)


I was going to get the Pulse 2, but then the DM12 came out. If it was paraphonic saw (instead of pulse) waves, I might have stayed with it. I still might get one, later on. Andromeda is a beast!
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