Korg Forums

[Savante]

1) Most Korg synths have two Mono modes. In the "Mono" mode, each time you play a key, the Amp Envelope retriggers. Thus each note has a new "attack" segment, followed by the rest of the envelope.

There is also a "Mono legato" mode in which case any new note played while another note is still held down does NOT trigger a new envelope, but rather sounds at whatever point the envelope of the held down note is at. This is a very different scenario.

But the Monologue only has one Mono mode, and the manual does not state whether it is the same as the "Mono" mode, or the "Mono legato" mode.

Which is it?

2) The Monologue envelopes are a little unusual -- not the typical ADSR envelopes found on other Korg synths. I would like to know if there is an envelope setting that is essentially "attack, decay, release" where the decay and release segments are the same. This would mean that the note played would decay normally as long as the note is held down, and would also continue to decay exactly the same after the note is released (as long as you don't play another note). In other words, it would be approximately the same as a piano key with the sustain pedal down. The note continues to sound until you play another note, regardless of whether the note is held down or not.

Please let me know.

If these questions are not clear, let me know and I'll try to explain more clearly.

Thank you!
_________________
Korg synths played with ribbon controller pitch bend:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak2eL_0rCBE&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX1fHKsjwaA&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Pmp3sR91ak&feature=channel

First-ever synth I owned: Korg DW-8000, Current Korg gear: Korg Kronos 2; Korg Minilogue XD; Korg Krome EX; Korg Nautilus 61

[moho]

1) turning on portamento with a time of 0 gives mono legato.

2) The AD envelope acts as a ADR as it decays if the key is held down or switches to release when the key is released.

Hope this helps

[Savante]

[moho]

Yes and yes

[Savante]

[MeneerJansen]

I don't know if this is what you mean, but I recently bought a K. Monologue.

Concerning the ADSR question. The Monol. only has attack and decay. Or rather attack and release: that's the way I see it.

To me attack decay and release means:
You press a note (= key on the keyboard). The attack of the envelope generator (EG) is applied on the VCA (= volume of the sound) and makes the volume go up. Then the volume decays to a certain lower volume which is sustained as long as you keep a note pressed. Then you let go of the key and the volume is slowly "released" to zero. I.e.: A/S/R.

The Monol. has attack and release, which means:
You press a note. The volume goes up according to the attack setting of the EG. Now the note sustains at that volume (i.e. no decay!) as long as you keep the note pressed. You let go of the key. Now the volume of the note gets "released" (i.e. decays in volume) to zero according to the setting of the decay knob of the EG.

But there's a catch. To compensate for the lack of an expensive full blown ADSR type EG for volume (VCA) and cutoff frequency of the filter (compare w/ a Minimogue) the Monol. has a so called "Type" switch for the EG (that can be switched to act on the cutoff instead). You can choose between three modes (I'm gonna write a review of the Monol. as soon as I understand and have experimented w/ all of its possibilities):

1. A/R: attack and release.
2. A/S/R: attack, sustain and release.
3. Gate & A/R: the VCA is gated (i.e. the volume of a note is max. on key press and zero after depress) and the filter cutoff (or shape or pitch of the VCOs) is of the A/R type.

What I described in the first paragraphs of my post is Type 2: A/S/R.

It's pretty darn vague if I can't make a drawing, a movie and a sound example but I hope it helps. By the way: the manual from the website has some good graphs of it on page 19.

[MeneerJansen]

P.S. I can confirm that setting portamento time to zero helps agains the much heard compliant on the internet that the envelope is re-triggered if you hold down a note.

It's set in this way: press the 'Edit' button until 'Program edit' is selected. Press button 5 of the sequencer (it's the first in line that is lit up) until 'Portamento time' is selected. Turn the 'Value' knob until it says '0' (zero) on the display. Press 'Exit' to apply. After that press 'Write' to save this setting until you want to change it back to 'Off'.

Good luck experimenting and playing the Monologue everybody.

[Savante]

Hi ManeerJansen

Thank you very much for your description of the Monologue envelope function, which appears to be somewhat different from what was described previously by moho.

If this is the case, the Monologue is not going to work for me. I am able to get the results I need from just about any other synth, but it seems that the envelope implementation of the Monologue is too limited for my use.

Thank you,
Savante
_________________
Korg synths played with ribbon controller pitch bend:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak2eL_0rCBE&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX1fHKsjwaA&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Pmp3sR91ak&feature=channel

First-ever synth I owned: Korg DW-8000, Current Korg gear: Korg Kronos 2; Korg Minilogue XD; Korg Krome EX; Korg Nautilus 61

[MeneerJansen]

@Savante: I don't exactly understand from your top post what you expect from the EG. I think that you'd like the EG to behave like the EG of a Minimoog, ie. like in figure 1 below:

[Savante]

ManeerJansen,

Thank you again. I'm sorry that I am not able to provide diagrams. I have tried to explain in words the best I can. I have used synths for decades and understand envelopes very well. The descriptions in the Monologue manual are not very clear -- even with the diagrams there.

Please understand that I am not "expecting" or demanding anything from the Monologue. It's just that I have particular needs and I want to know if the Monologue has that capacity. That's why I'm inquiring. If it will do what I require, great, if not, that's fine too -- I just won't buy one in that case.


According to the diagram you show for the Monologue, it looks like it will not work for me. I understand that it is a low-cost synth, so I am making careful inquiries. If it doesn't work as I would wish, so be it. I will simply pass on the Monologue and use different instruments.

What I'm looking for might best be described as a ADR envelope NOT an ASR, which is apparently what the Monolgue has.

I do not need a full ADSR, though that is typical of most synths. With an ADSR, I would set the Sustain level to zero (0).

Typical ADSR Amp Envelope settings I might use (assuming a 0-127 value range) might be as follows:

Attack: 3
Decay: 70
Sustain: 0
Release: 70

This is a fast attack, a slow decay, no sustain, and a release value equal to the decay value. But it appears that the Monologue would give me only Attack, Sustain, and Release. At least that what your diagram shows. So even though there is a "Decay" knob on the unit, it's actually an ASR envelope. This won't work for me. If it was ADR, that would work, but apparently that is not the case.

I think my explanations of what I'm looking for have been clear and consistent in every post.

Thank you very much for your help with this.
_________________
Korg synths played with ribbon controller pitch bend:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak2eL_0rCBE&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX1fHKsjwaA&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Pmp3sR91ak&feature=channel

First-ever synth I owned: Korg DW-8000, Current Korg gear: Korg Kronos 2; Korg Minilogue XD; Korg Krome EX; Korg Nautilus 61

[Savante]

I think the confusion here stems from the fact that moho and MeneerJansen have different ideas about how the Monologue VCA envelope behaves:

moho said:

"2) The AD envelope acts as a ADR as it decays if the key is held down or switches to release when the key is released."

MeneerJansen said:

"As you can see the "decay" knob of the Monologue actually acts like release if you choose Type 2 (A/S/R) for the EG! Then D = R. This means that when you release a key that the note keeps on playing but it slowly decreases in volume to zero during the release time D, just like on a Minimooog. I'm afraid I do not know how this works w/ a sustain pedal since I do not own one... Sorry."

"... the note does not decay after the attack: it goes directly to sustain..."

In other words, moho says it's an ADR envelope, and MeneerJansen says it's an ASR envelope. THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE TWO POSSIBILITIES! ADR works for me, ASR does not.

Because MeneerJansen has provided a much more detailed explanation, and included diagrams, I am assuming that he is correct. Therefore the Amp envelope behaves as an ASR envelope, not an ADR envelope. It's important for me to know this. He has explained that the envelope goes directly from Attack to Sustain, and only begins to Decay upon release of the key. It means that the note will NOT Decay as long as the key is held down -- the volume only begins to decrease when the key is released. This is clearly stated by MeneerJansen.

I have asked these questions because I have no access to try a Monologue myself. I live in a remote rural area with no access to a music store. I would have to buy online. My requirements are very specific, and sometimes it can be difficult to get reliable information in advance of purchase. In this case, the manual was not helpful. It did NOT describe the Amp envelope as operating as an ASR. However, that is apparently how it DOES operate, and I needed to know that.

Thank you very much.
Savante
_________________
Korg synths played with ribbon controller pitch bend:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak2eL_0rCBE&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX1fHKsjwaA&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Pmp3sR91ak&feature=channel

First-ever synth I owned: Korg DW-8000, Current Korg gear: Korg Kronos 2; Korg Minilogue XD; Korg Krome EX; Korg Nautilus 61

[moho]

The Monologue has 3 envelope modes the first is AD which acts as described as an AD while key held or AR when not. This is the function you talked of requiring do not be confused by the other modes.

[moho]

If you require a diagram the top row is taken from the manual with an explanation of note on off behaviour below



Hope this clears up any confusion.

[MeneerJansen]

[Savante]