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Jonyblues
Full Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2015
Posts: 133
Location: San Diego, California
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 Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Brianbluek, sorry to hear that you didn't get it working first time (also, re. bernie's comment, I can confirm that the whole score does definitely change to (and display) the new key, as I've successfully tried it multiple times in the past). Thanks for detailing the steps that you went through.
As I don't have a kbd here, it's a little hard to go through your process step by step to test which step you may have skipped (sorry!) but I'm sure the fix/change should be very easy/simple.
I'm not sure if you've abbreviated the steps that you took but the step that I didn't see you take (or document in your process) is going to the transpose tab at the bottom of the song edit section BEFORE selecting the "all tracks" selection, the key change (i.e. +/- semitones) and pressing the execute button.
From what I can see from your post, everything else seems fine (unless you're accidentally selecting the old file (or it is still in the kbd memory/cache) and not the new changed file, of course 😉 -call it a different name to be 100% sure).
You should, of course, even before you've exited from sequencer mode be able to hear that the song has been transposed. Maybe test it, by doing a large transposition. Also, as another test you can put the old midi file and the new "key changed" midi files into players 1 and 2, which will confirm that you have definitely changed the key (when you use the x-fader slider to transition from one to the other). Then, if you can definitely hear the difference between the two files, there should be no reason that you won't see the score changes too.
Hope this helps. Let me know if you get it working.
Happy new yr.
Best wishes,
Jon
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Korg PA4x, HX3 (B3 Sim module), Korg PA3x, Korg i2, Korg i40m, Roland AX-7, Roland FC300. |
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Bernie9
Senior Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 487
Location: Port Charlotte,FL
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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Jonyblues,
I sure hope that is the case. I will revisit it with your instructions and give it a go. That would be a Godsend, since I can't get double flats in my head that fast.
Bernie
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pa4x
Audya 76
Yamaha SX900
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BrianblueK
Joined: 29 Dec 2017
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I have just found a way, posted to day on a similar question. Istill do not know how todo it without Tyros help but at least I now have the capability |
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BrianblueK
Joined: 29 Dec 2017
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Jon, thank you again for your help...I feel the pressure off me now since I know how to get a result via Tyros help, however, I will try your way again and again because it would be better if I could do it on KORG, I think, however doing it the way I have just found only takes 5 steps. I will post again |
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BrianblueK
Joined: 29 Dec 2017
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Bernie, it sounds as if you have a similar problem to me, although at my age my fingers and brain no longer work in unison so keeping it as simple as possible is my way of doing it...Let us know how you get on
Happy New Year to you both |
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Bernie9
Senior Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 487
Location: Port Charlotte,FL
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know-I am 76. I'll see today what I get.
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pa4x
Audya 76
Yamaha SX900
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Bernie9
Senior Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 487
Location: Port Charlotte,FL
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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It is the same. The sound and notes transpose correctly BASED ON THE ORIGINAL KEY SIGNATURE. You still have to deal with the accidentals.
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1838
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:03 am Post subject: Re: Pa4X still does not show song transposition in the score |
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| Jonyblues wrote: | | Finally, in my view, the statement on page 98 of the manual that says "transposing the selected track does not affect the midi score" is wrong (when it is done in the way that I have described above). |
Hello Jon,
I think the statement on page 98 of the manual is right, because "transposing" means to use a transposing-feature like "Mastertranspose", causing soundprocessor does not play midi-notes as sent by MIDI (per keyboard, SMF oder Midi-In), but as transposed by a software-interface (transposer). What you did while editing an SMF is nothing else than editing - after leaving editor with changes are written to a SMF there is no feature transposing MIDI-Events while playing again. Sequencer/player simply is playing midi-events like reading from its source (SMF) without any transposing. So really transposing does not affect the midi score, as midi score always is showing that note-events as written into the SMF-tracks (as you did with your editor). If you edited in Ab it will display score in Ab!
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| bobeld@aol.com wrote: | .. waiting for Korg to enable the score to reflect the altered notes when a song is transposed.
If I change the key of a song from Eb to C (for ease of singing), I would expect the score to show the same change, but it does not. The song plays in C, but the score continues to show the song in the key of Eb. In addition to singing, I also solo over the song. I remove the lead (usually channel 4) and I use my right hand to become the sax, trumpet, guitarist (etc.) soloist.
........ Somehow, it confuses my brain to be playing in C and hear the notes transposed Ab. |
So if you really want
- to transpose a song -4 semitones
- to remove lead (channel 4)
- would expect the score to show the changed transpositions?
Edit your SMF-track with lead (channel 4) to be used as score-track: transpose -4 semitones, mute that selected track ( or volume/expression to 0) and finally re-write this SMF.
If you perform these song with "Mastertranspose -4 semitones", Global Tuning/Style and KeyboardTracks "Off" and "Player" marked, your SMF plays "As" instead "C" and your scorce displays "As" not to be confused while soloing with right hand.
PS: Never would recommend this kind of transposing - but is possible if necessary.
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kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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Reuben
Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 1613
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:19 am Post subject: |
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OK everyone please listen carefully. There is a way to do this which I explained in another thread but it got buried.
After Transposing in Sequencer Mode if you want the correct key signature in the score you need to do ONE MORE STEP.
Menu, Edit Event, touch bottom left track button and change to Master Track (the one below Track 16). Look for event "KeySign" from there its obvious - change to new Key. So if you transposed a C midi +2 then now change KeySign to D. Simple.
(Humble Pa3x owner here - but should be much the same on the 4x)
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Bernie9
Senior Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 487
Location: Port Charlotte,FL
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:27 am Post subject: |
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Thank you Reuben, it works like a charm. I am glad you re-posted, or we would have missed it.
Bernie
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Audya 76
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1838
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:10 pm Post subject: Transposition and Score-Display |
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| Reuben wrote: | .. After Transposing in Sequencer Mode if you want the correct key signature in the score you need to do ONE MORE STEP.
Menu, Edit Event, touch bottom left track button and change to Master Track (the one below Track 16). Look for event "KeySign" from there its obvious - change to new Key. So if you transposed a C midi +2 then now change KeySign to D. |
Thanks Reuben for your additional and correct infos how to set key signature for scores in case of changing keys in sound-Edit and rewriting SMF (as used in solution 2) .
If transposing it is important to understand that in Korg-Pa-Keyboards score always will display key of note-events as written into score-track of the SMF and will use key-signature (also clef, time-signature ..) as written in its Master-track (Player will find at position ‘001.01.000’).
In case of transposing in sound-editor and re-writing SMFs I think we do not talk about transposition but of adaptation of an SMF, because during performance of such a song no transposition-feature is used - but simple an adapted SMF is used. Adapting pitches of SMFs therefore requires adapting key-signature for correct display of score as you do.
*
Using example like startet this thread (change the key of a song from Eb to C for ease of singing) means all note-events of non-drum-tracks of this song are written in "Es" while key-signature of master-track also is set to "Es".
Solution 1 - real Master-transposing without editing SMF :
If transposing an example with Master-Transposition to -4 semitones, with Global Tuning/Style and KeyboardTracks to "On" and also "Player" marked, nothing is to edit in used SMF.
Sequencers note-events are transposed to be processed and played in "C", score displays in "Es" with key-signature in "Es" and so user can play keyboard like displayed in "Es", but also processed and sounding in "C" because transposed. Maybe one feels weird to hear the song in "C" while knowing he is playing the keys in "Es" as visible on score-display. SMF can be used universally but also individually for all possible transpositions!
Solution 2 - score display like sounding pitch of note-events to be heared - editing/adapting of SMF, no real Master-Transpose using:
In same example use song-edit to transpose note-events of none-drum-tracks to -4 semitones, set key-signature of MasterTrack to "C". That is simple - performing later you need not use MasterTranspose. You can use each track to be used for score-display without feeling weird, because you can hear pitch of note-events like you play your keys (only as long as you do not use transpose functions). SMF of that example only is useful to be performed without Master-Transpose - in case of any transpose, score still will be restricted to display in "C".
Solution 3 - Master-transposing Player-only and editing Score-Track and Master-Track:
This is for someone that want to play an SMF written in "Es" to be played in "C", but want score displayed in "C" after Master-transposition -4 semitones for "Player" only.
In this case it is necessary to edit the SMF with muted score-track ("Lead" to be played with keys). To fix score-display to "C" now in song-edit transpose score-track -4 semitones, set key-signature in Master-Track to "C" and rewrite SMF. Now you can play your "Es-Key"-SMF while Master-Transposition is set to -4 semitones for "Player"-tracks with muted score-track, but with key-signature and note-events of your keys in "C" as displayed. SMF of that example is restricted to be performed specially with Master-Transposition -4 semitones for "Player" only.
PS: Using the TRANSPOSE buttons or transposing the selected track (in mixer) does not affect the music score. Score page shows the actual MIDI notes as written into SMF (only chord symbols will be transposed automatically if Transpose is activated for "Player").
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kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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