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Best midi comtrollers of 2017
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:29 am    Post subject: Best midi comtrollers of 2017 Reply with quote

I found this comparrison of midi controllers..

Notably there where some missing in the high end, from which i added video's

http://keyszone.boards.net/thread/148/best-midi-controllers-2017


There currently are so many master midi keyboards on the market that its hard to choose the right one...
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Bertotti
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anyone is thinking of buying based on this article double check the specs. Out of the list I only have the Seaboard Rise, mines a 25 but everything else is the same as the 49, and it says it has a built in synth but it doesn't, the Seaboard Grand does. The Rise does come with a soft synth you can download to your computer which I think is the same as the embedded one in the Grand, and it comes with some other items so check the manufacture for complete info before you buy.
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John Hendry
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Roli Seaboard sounds interesting and would be my pick... and like seeing all the low cost goodies that will likely make there way into the VAX Wink
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chilly7
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have Novation SL61 MK2 and luck of motorized knobs and faders totally bad. And it is a total disaster with computer plugins. If i was again probably i would buy NI Kontrol S61. Because it looks like all knobs are motorized. But i need to do more researches about it to confirm it works for me and advertising of it is not lair.
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wma
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chilly7 wrote:
I have Novation SL61 MK2 and luck of motorized knobs and faders totally bad. And it is a total disaster with computer plugins. If i was again probably i would buy NI Kontrol S61. Because it looks like all knobs are motorized. But i need to do more researches about it to confirm it works for me and advertising of it is not lair.


i have the novation impulse 61 for more than five year, the only thing i love about it is the keyaction, but not the aftertouch .. the knobs have zero back force tension and the fader shoould have like glue as used with the keys of the keybed to smooth its movement and reduce contact/friction

I'm interested with the no kontrol s61 - the knobs are touch sensetive but not motorized i believe

but after my experience with mu novation I decided that this was my last ever midi keyboard controller i did ever buy, fun factor was down to zero

I would go for a sysnth or a workstation and use with it a midi controller for software control

I already have ni maschine jam, it's a good controller for it's calue

the article did miss the studio logic sl88 studio wich is cheap and simple and had the samekeyaction used with alot of keyboard like nord satage and some others
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Sharp
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty good.
Komplete 11 Ultimate and controller, that's one monster package. Kind of leaves you scratching your head when you consider how far less a stand-alone hardware Workstation offers.

Sharp
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sharp wrote:
Pretty good.
Komplete 11 Ultimate and controller, that's one monster package. Kind of leaves you scratching your head when you consider how far less a stand-alone hardware Workstation offers.

Sharp


with NKS support and the NI komplete kontrol midi controllers, you will get a near to hardware experience...

If NI can create a Host that supports any DAW for playback... and combine that with midi effects to replicate different arpeggiators, something akin to Karma, aswell as arranger tracks..

And then add a dedicated controll surface for those features, they might make hardware devellopers throw the towel...
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Sharp
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I spent some time watching video's on YouTube today and I'm surprised to see just how far they have gone with this. Seems pretty seamless for the most part.

The sound library is quite astonishing. Anything producing real-world sounds is far superior to any Rompler workstation I've ever heard, by miles.

I'm thinking very, very, strongly about buying into this. Even my Wife approves so that's the biggest obstacle out of the way...lol.

Sharp.
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Koekepan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is one reason for my belief that while romplers as such are unlikely to go away any time soon, we are likely to see something of a resurgence (or trend towards) synthesising workstations.

The Kronos is already there, with its engines, some of which explicitly offer a model, but imagine a workstation that essentially offered a virtual eurorack as its sound source, with HD-MIDI precision to reduce aliasing and similar sonic problems in reproduction. It would be an exciting tool to drive.

And sure, include a virtual rompler in the model. Cheap at the price, these days.
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chilly7
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sharp wrote:
Pretty good.
Komplete 11 Ultimate and controller, that's one monster package. Kind of leaves you scratching your head when you consider how far less a stand-alone hardware Workstation offers.

Sharp


The problem rises when you do not use NI.

NI is not bad and i think it is amazing starting package for beginners who entering music production but there are far better plugins then NI. But i heared some developers adoption their plugins to that NI controller.
But for musicians who want the best possible sound quality to deliver to people will leave computers completely and even DAWs and go fully analog from very start to very end. And distribute their music to listeners on tape and vinyl. Very Happy Hurray!!!
So all analog qualities of sound which are impossible to convert to digital are preserved.
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Koekepan
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chilly7 wrote:
But for musicians who want the best possible sound quality to deliver to people will leave computers completely and even DAWs and go fully analog from very start to very end. And distribute their music to listeners on tape and vinyl. Very Happy Hurray!!!
So all analog qualities of sound which are impossible to convert to digital are preserved.


Just out of curiosity, if I were to, for example, play a guitar, or sing, or play a flute, or whatever ... and then record it in 32 bit, 384KHz digital format for distribution to some customer base, which perceptible qualities of sound would be lost?

Please note, the magic word: perceptible.

Please also note, that there is no analogue system in the world that is not more noisy, and more lossy in duplication, than the digital parameters described above would permit.

This isn't an abstract question, I'm genuinely interested to discover what actual, technical, replicable quality of the sound would be somehow irretrievably lost in that digital transformation - a digital transformation which, for the record, would actually capture the analogue signal path's noisiness with positively obsessive precision.

Even reel to reel tape can't deliver that level of precision and accuracy in reproduction, although it's the best analogue medium we have, as far as I know.
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Sharp
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But for musicians who want the best possible sound quality to deliver to people will leave computers completely and even DAWs and go fully analog from very start to very end. And distribute their music to listeners on tape and vinyl


I can't imagine that ever happening.
The vast majority of the population don't care that they are listening a lossy format (mp3), so I can't ever imagine Analog being popular ever again in order to get closer to the sound.

Not that I believe analog could ever even offer anything better than lossless digital that the human ear can actually hear.

Regards
Sharp.
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chilly7
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koekepan wrote:
chilly7 wrote:
But for musicians who want the best possible sound quality to deliver to people will leave computers completely and even DAWs and go fully analog from very start to very end. And distribute their music to listeners on tape and vinyl. Very Happy Hurray!!!
So all analog qualities of sound which are impossible to convert to digital are preserved.


Just out of curiosity, if I were to, for example, play a guitar, or sing, or play a flute, or whatever ... and then record it in 32 bit, 384KHz digital format for distribution to some customer base, which perceptible qualities of sound would be lost?

Please note, the magic word: perceptible.

Please also note, that there is no analogue system in the world that is not more noisy, and more lossy in duplication, than the digital parameters described above would permit.

This isn't an abstract question, I'm genuinely interested to discover what actual, technical, replicable quality of the sound would be somehow irretrievably lost in that digital transformation - a digital transformation which, for the record, would actually capture the analogue signal path's noisiness with positively obsessive precision.

Even reel to reel tape can't deliver that level of precision and accuracy in reproduction, although it's the best analogue medium we have, as far as I know.


I was looking for truth and here is my thought what truth can be:

Digital can never be as good as analog. It is impossible.

Computer plugins never will be as good as analog or better.


Talking like this or that plugin sound the same as analog or it cannot be picked up any difference between a plugin and the real analog thing is not true and this talking come from deaf people and who have no access to the best audio playback equipment or people lair on purpose.

And here is why computer's plugins will never be as good or better then real analog:


1)Modern computers are based on mathematic. And mathematic cannot replicate our world exactly as it is. It always does it approximately.
2)Real world has so many parameters going on that modern human knowledge has no clue of.
3)But even if all that was known to people and modern computers had unlimited processing power who and how they can code billions of billions parameters which in addition interact with each other in no linear way?



Speaking about digital audio it is not as bad as digital instruments but still it is bad and will never recreate analog sound because the bottle neck is Dacs and audio storage formats.
For example we will take the best audio format which is Wav and with 1s and 0s you cannot store analog signal as it is, it always will do it approximately and also there are much more things to sound which are not stored in Wav and other digital formats.
But most audio people listen to is not even in Wav but other crappier formats.

Most modern people have no clue what is analog sound because they are used to listen to awrything on Youtube. And when marketing BS comparing analog gear to digital they can lair to people easly because entire Internet is digital and you cannot hear analog sound from it.
Also there is another lair when people on oscilloscope compare analog signal and digital signal and there is no difference. But the truth is that oscilloscope is not a full measurement of audio signal because there is more to audio signal then oscilloscope can show.





Solution to the problem i see:


Computers have to be based not on mathematic but on something which can replicate our word as it is. But even if that done 2 and 3 is still look like impossible to achieve.


So for now the only valid solution i see to resurrect high quality 100% sound path analog music equipment and instruments.

And recordings or performances are made at 100% analog path.


And the final mix down will go to:
1. The best in the world converters and the best digital audio formats for storage on computers so lazy people can listen that on modern computers.
2. Restore production of high end tapes and high end vinyl for studio use and consumers listenings.
3. Develop better high end analog audio storage medium then tape which will fix some problems of it for example to increase dynamic and frequency range, reduce noise, longer playback time but also be more portable for studio use and consumers listenings.
4. Ofcause some imperfection of analog equipment can be desirable for recording studio use but not desirable for playback equipment. For example distortion and saturation and colofulness of tape machine in recording situation can be desirable but totally not desirable for tape machine playback system.
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chilly7
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sharp wrote:
Quote:
But for musicians who want the best possible sound quality to deliver to people will leave computers completely and even DAWs and go fully analog from very start to very end. And distribute their music to listeners on tape and vinyl


I can't imagine that ever happening.
The vast majority of the population don't care that they are listening a lossy format (mp3), so I can't ever imagine Analog being popular ever again in order to get closer to the sound.

Not that I believe analog could ever even offer anything better than lossless digital that the human ear can actually hear.

Regards
Sharp.

I have the answer for that question but then i have to break the rule not to speak Christian religion on this forum. So i guess i will not give you the answer but we just wait a couple of years and we see that in Russian land it might be possible. And then people from other countries can purchase high end analog equipment and analog music from Russian land. And i really hope so and want so. And i strongly will ask my Master for that. But my Master will make final design and i obey. Smile
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EvilDragon
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holy crap chilly you're so full of it.
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