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GRISWOLD3 · Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:32 pm Post subject: Kronos MIDI Monitor?

Hi all - I was doing some trouble shooting lately & made good use of the MIDI diagnostics function on my Kurzweil PC3. This mode allows me to see all MIDI data & channels sent & received. Obviously this is a great built-in tool to have & can save lots of time.

My questions is - does the Kronos has any such MIDI diagnostics, feature? Can I view MIDI activity directly on the Kronos?

Thanks.
Larry

alland · Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Kronos MIDI Monitor?

KK · Platinum Member Joined: 13 Oct 2016 Posts: 1422

Get yourself MIDI-OX. It's free.

Grog96 · Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:00 pm Post subject:

I concur with the above.

• To my knowledge, the Kronos doesn't show any detailed indication of MIDI activity. If you send it a SysEx dump, there is a plain & simple box on the screen that reads "Now receiving MIDI data"; conversely if it responds to a SysEx dump request you'll see "Now transmitting MIDI data" - but no detail.

• MIDI-OX (LINK) is your friend. It gives very detailed information, and can be made to filter out any message types (e.g, Timing Clock, Active Sensing, Pitch Bend, controllers, notes, etc) and channels. And it's free!

Many moons (decades) ago, I bought an actual hardware gadget for diagnosing MIDI signals - StudioMaster MA36:

It was handy when you're out in the field and up against it trying to figure out what's misbehaving. Unfortunately I lost it at a gig; never seen one since. If you're back at base (or if you go out gigging with a laptop) MIDI-OX is your best bet.
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GRISWOLD3 · Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:51 pm Post subject:

Oh man sorry to hear about your disappearing Midi monitor - it looks cool. Thanks for the advice.

I have some apps on my iPad that I can use so i'm not stuck. I think MidiOx is one of them. Anyway I do find the Kurz utility very handy. You can even set up Midi Channels, Banks, PrgChg & hit send to see what happens.

BTW I used the Kurz incoming Midi monitor to verify that it is virtually impossible to generate velocities anywhere close to 127 from the K61 keybed. This was very disappointing to me since that's so limiting when using some of these great sampled Rhodes programs. Well that has been on ongoing complaint for a while but now I just play all Kronos pianos from the Kurz.

Derek Cook · Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:04 pm Post subject:

That Kurtz feature is cool. I have never seen such a thing on any keyboard that I have including the Kronos.

MIDIOX on PC as mentioned above is my main tool for MIDI diagnosis, but I also use SNOIZE MIDI monitor on OS X, which is the Mac equivalent.

And you still find MA36 units coming up on eBay. I got one a year or so back, for a bargain price, just in case I have problems on gigs and for some reason I do not have a laptop with me (which would be rare).
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GRISWOLD3 · Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:54 pm Post subject:

Derek thanks for the feedback.

FYI the Kurzweill PC3 is a MIDI controller Beast. One setup can contain 16 zones each of which can independently transmit all Midi info to individual channels. All sliders, buttons, pedals etc can also be programmed separately for each zone. Of course local control of the keyboard sounds for any zone is simultaneously available.

Makes my head spin sometimes:)

jeebustrain · Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:05 pm Post subject:

another option is MidiWrench on the iPad. You can plug it into the USB port (using the camera connection kit). My Kronos is rarely plugged directly into a computer so I usually go this route.
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Grog96 · Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:30 pm Post subject:

psionic311 · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:01 am Post subject:

Derek Cook · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:08 am Post subject:

Derek Cook · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:11 am Post subject:

aron · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:43 am Post subject:

Yes the PC3 sounds good BUT Motif sounds are so prevalent and sound good on stage. Whether you care about widely used sounds is up to you. I loved my PC3 but I had to work at it a lot to make it sound great.

I won't go into more detail, but I also consider the Motif better built overall. You can PM me if you want more detail.
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GRISWOLD3 · Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:06 am Post subject:

Yes I have changed velocity curves & spent hours addressing this issue. I originally posted about this frustration years ago & finally just excepted that the K61 would not be a single keyboard solution for me. I.E Busch has the best sampled Rhodes pianos I have heard. As a long time player of the original I can attest to that. (Everything I state is of course my opinion, but a strong one). Anyway those Rhodes emulation played on the K61 just sound average due to the lack of response & higher velocities required to get the 'bark' out. However, playing those same programs from a proper external keyboard, in my case the PC3 makes these sounds come to life as they should. I understand I could go in & start monkeying around with the individual samples but my life is too short.

Likewise I have bitched about the Leslie sim on the K for a long time. I've read every post & tried every tweak. Again as a long time B3 player I may be pickier than others but the K CX3 sounds just don't make me want to play the instrument. I have since dedicated a Burn effect, programmed the organ sounds to Output3, use a mixer & my soul can rest at night knowing I'm no longer pissed off by the Kronos organs.

Full disclosure - My happiness with the Kronos only emerged when I quit trying to duplicate authentic Rhodes, Organ & Pianos (which I also dislike on the Kronos). I started focusing on synth sounds that I couldn't easily get anywhere else & I became a satisfied Kronos owner. I now use this as a second keyboard & only use sounds that make me happy:)

As far as the Kurz PC3 goes I LOVE it. That is one keyboard I can do almost every gig with & not be grumpy. The sounds are designed to sit well in a live band situation & the thing really comes to life with layers, splits etc. Kurz is the industry standard for Broadway & absolutely nails orchestral sounds. Yes it uses it's own approach to sound design which may take some time getting used to but so what? You really have to play one since the sounds are SO expressive & organinc it is really hard to explain. So in my opinion the Kurz & the Kronos are excellent companions.

I also really like some Rhodes patches on the Motif but that's all. Everything else you can keep. Obviously these are all very personal decisions & the bottom line is certain keyboards inspire me to play & others are just tools to get the job done. Also I love the action on the K61 but can't stand the keyboards on the other Ks. The Kurz semi-weighted action is lightning fast & my personal favorite.

Lately I've been focusing on designing more usable patches that combine the Kurz & Kronos. THIS is where it's at! Even two different horn patches layered from each keyboard can become a thing of beauty.

I also have to say that one of the reasons I like the Kronos is this forum & the advice & knowledge that is shared.

Peace,
Larry