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BasariStudios Approved Merchant
Joined: 29 May 2005 Posts: 6510 Location: NYC, USA
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:33 am Post subject: |
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This Uli guy is an idiot...and this will be anything but Moog, i mean soundwise.
It will most likely sound like a cheap Casio Tonebank while the uneducated
will make Uli's pockets bigger blabbering around how the have a Moog. Sad times. _________________ http://www.basaristudios.com
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium. |
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BasariStudios Approved Merchant
Joined: 29 May 2005 Posts: 6510 Location: NYC, USA
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:35 am Post subject: |
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Koekepan wrote: | If I wanted the minimoog sound, he would save me $3,000. |
WRONG! You can say if you wanted the Moog Look not Sound...
If you want the Moog Sound then you HAVE to spend those 3000$.
400$ can never substitute 3000$...simple logic and mathematics. _________________ http://www.basaristudios.com
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium. |
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psionic311 Platinum Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2014 Posts: 1046 Location: Orlando, Florida USA
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:39 am Post subject: |
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BasariStudios wrote: | Koekepan wrote: | If I wanted the minimoog sound, he would save me $3,000. |
WRONG! You can say if you wanted the Moog Look not Sound...
If you want the Moog Sound then you HAVE to spend those 3000$.
400$ can never substitute 3000$...simple logic and mathematics. |
WRONG! You don't have to spend $3000 to get a Moog sound -- the ladder filters are used in the Minitaur and the Slim Phatty, which are both around $500.
Money is not math. Using close to identical circuitry is more mathematically sound as an argument. See what I did there? |
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Bertotti Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Jul 2010 Posts: 3384 Location: Middle of nowhere
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:44 am Post subject: |
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This thread confuses me, just exactly what is the problem? Who cares if these guys try to make a D clone. I don't see the problem. It may or may not sound like a Moog but maybe it will sound good even if it doesn't. Maybe it will be 400$ what's the problem with that. I just don't get it. You don't like it or want it don't buy it, you want it and or like it buy it. How is this a problem. I wanted a Moog sound so i bought the Minitaur. Love the darn thing but have had some Moog buttheads tell it it wasn't a real Moog sound. I don't get that either and really could care less either way because i like it.
Perhaps i should just ignore these threads because they make not sense to me when people start hating a product that doesn't even exist yet. |
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Koekepan Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 Posts: 617
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:26 am Post subject: |
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You ask a very good question. What is the problem?
Well, I'll tell you.
Uli is a blood-sucking capitalist warmonger; a fascist beast intent on polishing his jackboots with the blood of the orphans he tramples beneath his feet while he destroys the very foundations of synthesis with his exploitative strategies that rip the very bread from the mouths of his serfs. He and his oppressive fellow-travelers are the modern-day robber barons who will look you in the eye and smile even while they sharpen the knife for your throat! His flabby pretenses at sonic parity with the true-hearted products of the uplifted workers of Moog are a mere sop to the petty bourgeoisie, paying them off while he destroys the revolutionary potential of the lumpenproletariat!
But wait, my brethren, for the day when this burden, this toil can no longer be borne. Arise! Break your chains, and cast out the superfluous ownership class, and take your place as the rightful owners of the production that has been stolen from you! Then he and his thugs, his petty band of brutal facebreakers, his pack of running-dog lackeys and lickspittles will break like glass before the righteous might of the workers! The fall of his kind is a matter of simple historical inevitability, as we move forward to the next stage of human development! The voice of the proletariat shall rise in triumphant song over the forgotten graves of the parasites of the past!
Sorry, what was the question again? |
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amit Approved Merchant
Joined: 13 Jul 2015 Posts: 825 Location: New Delhi, India
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:24 am Post subject: |
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If you really want that moog sound then get a moog period.
otherwise it's always going to be it's damn close, just almost but not yet..
Now, howeger if you are looking for a 3 osc analog mono , then this adds to a list of options you'll have , plus some spare cash to spend elsewhere.
As for me, After going through various likes in the ballpark, I ended up getting a waldorf pulse 2, it's an exceptional analog(DCO's though) for it's price. _________________ DX7-MOD-7 Patches | Korg Related Content
iPad Pro 12.9,MBP
Korg (Kronos 2, PA600,WavestateVolcaFM), Moog Subsequent 37, Waldorf Pulse 2, ,Novation (Peak, Circuit), Roland GR55, Roli Rise 49, Boog Model D Novation Sl 49, Launchpad Pro, Ableton Push 2 + Suite,Yamaha DTX Multi 12, Akai EWI USB, Nano key Studio, Arturia(BeatStep Pro,DrumBrute,Keystep),StryMon(Big Sky,Timeline), Mooer Ocean Machine, Zoom MS-70CDR,MXR Carbon Copy Deluxe, MicroKontrol,KLC, Korg DS-1H, Korg EXP-2,Roland DP-10, Nanopad 2, TEcontrol BBC2, Soundcraft Signatrure 22 MTK, Yamaha MG10XU,UltraG DI,Eris E5 .. List |
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Bertotti Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Jul 2010 Posts: 3384 Location: Middle of nowhere
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:07 am Post subject: |
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Koekepan wrote: | You ask a very good question. What is the problem?
Well, I'll tell you.
Uli is a blood-sucking capitalist warmonger; a fascist beast intent on polishing his jackboots with the blood of the orphans he tramples beneath his feet while he destroys the very foundations of synthesis with his exploitative strategies that rip the very bread from the mouths of his serfs. He and his oppressive fellow-travelers are the modern-day robber barons who will look you in the eye and smile even while they sharpen the knife for your throat! His flabby pretenses at sonic parity with the true-hearted products of the uplifted workers of Moog are a mere sop to the petty bourgeoisie, paying them off while he destroys the revolutionary potential of the lumpenproletariat!
But wait, my brethren, for the day when this burden, this toil can no longer be borne. Arise! Break your chains, and cast out the superfluous ownership class, and take your place as the rightful owners of the production that has been stolen from you! Then he and his thugs, his petty band of brutal facebreakers, his pack of running-dog lackeys and lickspittles will break like glass before the righteous might of the workers! The fall of his kind is a matter of simple historical inevitability, as we move forward to the next stage of human development! The voice of the proletariat shall rise in triumphant song over the forgotten graves of the parasites of the past!
Sorry, what was the question again? |
Now this is some funny s**t! Thanks! |
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Sharp Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 18197 Location: Ireland
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:12 am Post subject: |
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There are countless clones of various synths available as both hardware and software. Those even annoyed in this thread by what behringer are doing own cloned products.
Don't forget, all sample based Workstation get their sound from samples directly recorded from other instruments too.
I'd be more annoyed by the lack of innovation in the industry. |
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JPROBERTLA Senior Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2011 Posts: 483 Location: New Orleans
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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Behringer has improved in almost every respect over the past 10 years. The name of the company is the last thing that really means anything. I own two Behringer products. An XR18 mixer and a Turbosound IP2000 (x2) sound system. I am extremely please with both of them and did a lot or research and comparisons before purchasing. Bang for the buck is off the scale and the things sound great: what else matters? I don't understand what the fuss is about this synth. If it sounds good and people like it then it will be successful if not , it won't. Just like anything else. _________________ JP
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Kronos2-88, Behringer XR18, Turbosound IP2000 (x2), dbx DriveRack 260, KRK Rokit 8s, Mackie CFX16, Mackie SRM450(x2), Mackie SRS1500 (x2), BBE processors (x4), Roland VSR 880 (x2), Alto TS210, Alto TX10 (x3) and SoundForge |
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Kontrol49 Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 1280
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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The problem with Behringer is that they've made money copying or bringing cheaper clones of already existing musical items for many years,to the point that its almost as if they simply just copied the whole design and just stuck their own badge on and passed it off as their own unique design,and they've not really helped there case by manufacturing high volumes that have been prone to quality issues which has rocked their image.
In recent years they have seemed to shake off that flaky image,with more top spec products,I own an X32 console and although its based on a higher spec Midas desk,its not quite a clone in the design sense seeing as Behringer now own Midas,the Console at half the price of the Midas is still top notch for the price and Build Quality is far better than I expected from Behringer,but is still what I would call high end spec prices,but still the early consoles have seen there fair share of issues both Hardware and software wise,but I think Behringer are doing a lot to rectify and shake off that poor image they've attained and concentrating their efforts into customer support.
in terms of synths,I have no real interest in purchasing any Behringer synths irrespective of them making clones of classics,unless its done in the respectful manner and bettered in terms of up to date features rather than a like for like just because they can do it cheaper,to me that isn't what innovation is about,although the DM12 is a very interesting synth for its price and features,It doesn't interest me enough to want one in my collection,so I doubt a cloned minimoog would either.
It's just going to be a second-best option to the real thing,that will be accessible to most ordinary guys on a budget,i find it strange that people say" I wouldn't drop $3k on a moog",but happy to buy a $400 clone,that signals to me that they would desire a Real Moog so why not just opt for the real thing,I've always bought the best instruments I could afford because pursuing the real thing on a budget with a will to finally get the instrument you want will invariably cost you more in the long run by purchasing stepping stone options and constantly wishing you could afford the real thing.
I'm sure everyone would like a real MiniMoog for $400 for sure but theres a reason why the Real thing doesn't cost $400,its not because Moog are overcharging,I wonder how many DM12's will still be working and in a fully mint condition 10 years later unlike the Voyager I've had for such time,I fear for how many of them will have malfunctioning sliders in such periods of time,If I get another 10 years out of my Voyager,then to me the initial outlay was worth the cost,I don't expect a DM12 or any future Behringer synth at a fraction of the price to have the same life expectancy.
You can debate the specs till the cows come home,on the raw side of things all oscillators sound in some sense the same without all the other commodities that go into its signal path but at the end of the day there's nothing that can realistically replace the whole experience and touch and feel of the ownership of a Moog.
Last edited by Kontrol49 on Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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EvilDragon Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 1992 Location: Croatia
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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Kontrol49 wrote: | its not because Moog are overcharging. |
Sure they are. |
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Kontrol49 Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 1280
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Double Post.
Last edited by Kontrol49 on Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:19 pm; edited 8 times in total |
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Broadwave Platinum Member
Joined: 25 May 2011 Posts: 1118 Location: Manchester UK
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sorry but I HAVE to say it... There's NOTHING special about the Minimoog's internal components. They're available off the shelf and ridiculously cheap, and if Behringer copy the circuit diagrams EXACTLY, then it WILL sound like a Minimoog (it simply can't not - I should know... I've been repairing the damned things for 30 years), even if they embellish some parts for extra functions and use SMD technology... Good luck to them.
With Moog, what you're paying for is the name and quality of the overall construction of a complete synth. The Mini D is just a rack, so there's plenty of money to be saved - But maybe it would sound better if it was in an overly expensive polished Walnut case _________________ Synth DIY Projects |
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amit Approved Merchant
Joined: 13 Jul 2015 Posts: 825 Location: New Delhi, India
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Broadwave wrote: | I'm sorry but I HAVE to say it... There's NOTHING special about the Minimoog's internal components. They're available off the shelf and ridiculously cheap, and if Behringer copy the circuit diagrams EXACTLY, then it WILL sound like a Minimoog (it simply can't not - I should know... I've been repairing the damned things for 30 years), even if they embellish some parts for extra functions and use SMD technology... Good luck to them.
With Moog, what you're paying for is the name and quality of the overall construction of a complete synth. The Mini D is just a rack, so there's plenty of money to be saved - But maybe it would sound better if it was in an overly expensive polished Walnut case |
Agreed, but can they?
I am certain cloning the circuit as is would be patent infringement (doing s hobbyist is one thing and doing that as a commercial entity totally different. not to mention the trademark aspects being taken for granted here ), so they will have to make some substantial alterations to it.
Nice read for who do care : http://www.till.com/articles/moog/patents.html _________________ DX7-MOD-7 Patches | Korg Related Content
iPad Pro 12.9,MBP
Korg (Kronos 2, PA600,WavestateVolcaFM), Moog Subsequent 37, Waldorf Pulse 2, ,Novation (Peak, Circuit), Roland GR55, Roli Rise 49, Boog Model D Novation Sl 49, Launchpad Pro, Ableton Push 2 + Suite,Yamaha DTX Multi 12, Akai EWI USB, Nano key Studio, Arturia(BeatStep Pro,DrumBrute,Keystep),StryMon(Big Sky,Timeline), Mooer Ocean Machine, Zoom MS-70CDR,MXR Carbon Copy Deluxe, MicroKontrol,KLC, Korg DS-1H, Korg EXP-2,Roland DP-10, Nanopad 2, TEcontrol BBC2, Soundcraft Signatrure 22 MTK, Yamaha MG10XU,UltraG DI,Eris E5 .. List |
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Koekepan Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 Posts: 617
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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amit wrote: | Agreed, but can they?
I am certain cloning the circuit as is would be patent infringement (doing s hobbyist is one thing and doing that as a commercial entity totally different. not to mention the trademark aspects being taken for granted here ), so they will have to make some substantial alterations to it.
Nice read for who do care : http://www.till.com/articles/moog/patents.html |
Patents don't last forever. The design in question is around 40 years old; those patents are long expired.
The Minimoog itself, as well as other Moog devices, have been cloned, or copied in software before. Uli is not proposing doing anything that hasn't been done, and since he's not proposing even duplicating the device (he proposed a rackmount version, with eurorack-compatible jacks) this is hardly relevant on any level whatsoever.
That's the whole point; there's nothing stopping him, and the parts are cheap, if he wants to put out a Minimoog clone, why not? The Moog fan club don't want him to because they want people to pay thousands of dollars more for a certain range of sound - and as Broadwave pointed out, if you have the same circuit, you have the same sound.
They've also tried to advance some kind of moral argument, founded on Behringer undermining the rest of the industry by their low prices, as if the expenses of musicians somehow don't count, or as if we're all rich, or we were all going to spend it on booze and hookers anyway. It's the same sort of nonsense you hear from Apple fanboys too.
"You can buy a car! You can afford a macbook! You don't really have to save $800 by going for a bottom-of-the-range Dell! Credit cards are there to be used! Fiscal responsibility is what The Man wants you to do! Fight the power! Buy Apple! Cool kids buy Apple! Don't you want to be cool too?"
Limited financial resources and hard choices don't seem to mean much to this crowd. |
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