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Why still the 32 bit editor?
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nor17



Joined: 04 Apr 2016
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:19 am    Post subject: Why still the 32 bit editor? Reply with quote

I love the Kronos.
I love my softsynths en Logic.
They don't speak together.

The only solutions are imho :

a the official 64 bit Sound Quest editor update (more than 200)

b probably the Vienna Ensemble pro software (more than 200)

I'm at the point to sell the Kronos; without a proper DAW integration the Kronos is a very expensive midi-controller. I cannot justify the extra money to make it work (if these solutions are working!).

Strange that they sell it nowadays still with the 32bit software, as if they don't know what today's practice is.
Offcourse they do know and it's probably a money/license thing between Sound Quest and Korg.

Please sort that out, it's so naive to continue this situation!
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jmchiro



Joined: 25 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree 100% that DAW integration is the one area where the Kronos fails.

Has anyone had good success with either of the solutions mentioned to integrate the Kronos as a plug in within Logic Pro X:

Sound Quest Editor or Vienna Ensemble Pro 6 ?


Thanks
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NormC
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it funny that people would sell a wonderful instrument over a free piece of non-essential software. And to call it just a very expensive MIDI controller is being disingenuous.
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Last edited by NormC on Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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nor17



Joined: 04 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand that the VST/AU plugin is not as important for everybody, but the plugins are the software that makes the connection to my DAW environment. When connected, the Kronos synthesis can play it's role next to other super softsynth's.

When you play your Kronos as it is, the urge for 64-plugins is off course nonexistent.

But a big respectable music-instruments firm can not be taken seriously when they deliver only a 32bit editor in 2017 with their expensive workstation's.

Nice to have update's, nice to have platinum, gold en wood-side versions, versions with 60gb,, also lot's of new sounds etc.

But I cannot make easy use of for example the incredible Mod7 in my songs without use of spdif. And I cannot save all the info in the same song.

We cannot deny that it was at least the intention of Korg to integrate the Kronos in a DAW environment. And now we have to conclude that Korg failed in that mission?

Come on gentlemen !
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Falcon2e
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NormC wrote:
I find it funny that people would sell a wonderful instrument over a free piece of non-essential software.


+1
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aron
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

> probably a money/license thing between Sound Quest and Korg

That's probably it. Just upgrade to the 64 bit version.
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nor17



Joined: 04 Apr 2016
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I digged a little deeper on this subject because it’s important for me.
When you google a bit on Kronos 32bit editor you can see there are lots of Kronos users with the same problem. It goes back to 2012 (!)on KORG forums and other specialised forums. So I try to understand what is happening (or not). I will not take for granted that the support on this editor- topic is lacking. If you aren’t interested and you don’t use your Kronos in an 64-bit environment, you don’t have to read this!

On second thoughts the solution: update to the full editor from soundquest as I mentioned in the opening post is not working as you can read in the following quote of the Soundquest forum:

Re: Cubase 9 rejects the VST plugins because of being 32-bit
Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:34 am
When Midi Quest 11 was released, Cubase was supporting 32-bit plug-ins within 64-bit environments on the Mac so it wasn't an issue. The next release of Midi Quest will have 64-bit Mac plug-in support (no release date currently available) so it is a matter of "hanging on" until the new code is released.


There is no 64 bit editor, it is under development. So the solution lies with Soundquest. Korg says: (32-bit plug-in only. This plug-in is not currently available in 64-bit) I assume they don’t want to change the first Soundquest route because of the investments they already did.
I don’t want to be offending but why is it taking so long to code the 64 bit version?
A little speculation:
    the 64 bit expertise is not present at SQ
    the development has a low priority, because of other priorities
    Soundquest is an one-man firm without enough time to deliver at the right time
    initial it looked like an achievable mission to make a 64-bit version, in real life it’s a complicated specialised frustrating thing
    a combination of these points

The Vienna Ensemble Pro solution that I mentioned is not a very practical one. You have to use two computers.
It’s a pity that Korg has taken this SQ route. I hope they give an alternative on short notice to use our Kronos sound in our 64-bit DAW’s in a practical way.
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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure Midi Quest on PC is 64 bit.
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nor17



Joined: 04 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The MidiQuest software is definitely 32bit. And so are the VST and AU plugin’s it’s generating.
By reading further in the SQ fora, you can see how this problem is developed in the recent five years. The problem occured when Cubase and Logic went for the 32/64bit route. And a little later: only 64bit. That was in 2011/2012.
The first clear posts/answers in the SQ fora are from almost two years ago:
Re: 64 Bit Audio Unit

Sat May 30, 2015 5:56 am
Hello xxxx,
As a matter of policy, we don't discuss future development but given current trends, I think you could safely assume that we are working on a 64-bit version of Midi Quest for the Mac. Just remember that moving a large application from Carbon to Cocoa is a major project.


But before there were also posts/answers about this matter:

Re: 64bit Mac plugin?
Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:00 pm
Not yet…


Before that time SoundQuest was thinking that the “32 lives” solution ( a wrapper) did worked, but it didn’t you can read in the first MQ 11 post:

Re: Midi Quest 11 Support
Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:47 pm
Midi Quest's AU plug-in is currently 32-bit so you would need to use a converter such as 32-lives (http://www.soundradix.com/) to run the plug-ins.


So for the adjusted speculation:
    “the 64 bit expertise is not present at SQ” “not” is maybe “almost” I hope
    “the development has a low priority, because of other priorities” not true
    “Soundquest is an one-man firm without enough time to deliver at the right time” true
    “initial it looked like an achievable mission to make a 64-bit version, in real life it’s a complicated specialised frustrating thing” true
    “a combination of these points” true


I don’t have the illusion that some posts on a forum activate Korg or SoundQuest to solve the problem, especially when it takes a whole new application for it (MQ 12?) to develop. On the other hand is this a “not pro” situation where SQ shouts for years now that they develop a 64 bit version and Korg is trapped in the one-person-no-time-firm (as a matter of fact: Korg’s cooperation with the small Karma firm has turned out special, so it is possibly).

Policy of SQ is to not give a date for the release of future software. In the essence it’s a good policy; but when it takes more than five years, it is ?????
Dear Korg, Soundquest needs your help, they can not deliver the software!
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aron
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Just remember that moving a large application from Carbon to Cocoa is a major project.


WOW! OMG, it may never happen. Carbon is so old - that's why. They would have to rewrite entire parts of the app - similar to what happened to Galaxy and Galaxy+ Editors. It could be done but in reality it would be so much work that it could never make the money back for the effort.

Blame Apple for changing everything more than once!
It's amazing to me that Apple can obsolete entire families of software - once from 68K to powerPC and then from PowerPC to Intel. Really - INSANELY great software died horrible deaths because of Apple changing things. Really sad. So lucky they have FANatics that keep them going.
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nor17



Joined: 04 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cubase 9 Windows is also only 64 bit !
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QuiRobinez
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nor17 wrote:
I understand that the VST/AU plugin is not as important for everybody, but the plugins are the software that makes the connection to my DAW environment. When connected, the Kronos synthesis can play it's role next to other super softsynth's.


although i fully agree that korg should have delivered a working 64 bit plugin, it's not nessecary to make it work together with softsynths in a DAW. But in that case you need to do it yourself. I have no real experience with logic (only with ableton live and cubase), but you can do this with the External instrument plugin in a DAW. Logic has something similar, see the following page:

https://9to5mac.com/2015/07/19/logic-how-to-hardware-external-plug-in/

So in my case i have created external instruments in ableton live and cubase. I also added a control panel which is connected to the standard CC controls of the Kronos, so that i can automate things like Cutoff, Reso, panning, etc...

Because it's an external instrument it's automatically delay compensated and you can add VST effects to them. In ableton i have created an external instrument where the kronos is routed through, overdrive, distortion, delay, reverb and EQ's which i can shut on/off with my midi controller.

So if you really want to use it in logic it can be done. You have to do this without the editor, and program selection in a combi can't be really done from the computer (unless you run the 32 bit editor outside logic for that purpose). But in general it can be used like any other old skool hardware synth in DAW's

If you find it unacceptable to work this way (which i can imagine nowadays) , then there is no other alternative then to sell the kronos and go to the competitors, Yamaha and Roland have good DAW plugins for 64 bit environments for their high end synths, or you go completely native with virtual instruments, a combined setup of Native Komplete and Spectrasonics suite will give you alsmost anything the kronos can offer sound wise.
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nor17



Joined: 04 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanx, Qui for thinking in solutions. Your creative and instructional Kronos clips were very stimulating and they helped to buy a Kronos in the first place.

I'm aware of the "external instrument" one, but in practice it's not enough nowadays, maybe I'm spoiled.
I also use NI and Spectrasonics amongst other synth's (Equator,Strobe2 and Roli are the newest ones) but it is also important for me to have a sophisticated all-in-one synth/workstation for "live". And some parts of the Kronos are still wonderfull.
So as a solution I can sell the Kronos (with pain). As a matter of fact my Kronos is already on "Marktplaats" the Dutch online market (you know that one Qui).

But as a last attempt I want to put the 64bit question on this forum.
It's 2017, we have to use the social media power to work for customer rights. When Korg writes on their Kronos website: The KRONOS Plug-in Editor is compatible with DAWs (Digital Audio Workstations) and other applications which have support for the VST and AU audio plug-in formats. (32-bit plug-in only. This plug-in is not currently available in 64-bit)
they live in a different reality of at least five years ago.

I wonder what comes first: selling the Kronos or hopefully updating the editor to a 64bit one.
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aron
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

> Cubase 9 Windows is also only 64 bit !

Yes, but please realize that Carbon was a stop gap for OS8/9 to OS X. That was a long time ago and Carbon was abandoned. It is a huge undertaking to make the editors work without Carbon.

It would probably be easier for Korg to create an entirely new editor than rely on old code that needs to be updated.
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nor17



Joined: 04 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aron wrote:
> Cubase 9 Windows is also only 64 bit !


It would probably be easier for Korg to create an entirely new editor than rely on old code that needs to be updated.


they should have
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