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Kornos on Sierra (Bad audio)
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Valles
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Joined: 22 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject: Kornos on Sierra (Bad audio) Reply with quote

Hi all,

I've just upgraded to Sierra and also updated my Kronos to the latest version.
I am experiencing a crackling noise after a few seconds of playing audio on my computer.
Do you guys had the same experience, any advice?

Many thanks!

L.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Kornos on Sierra (Bad audio) Reply with quote

Valles wrote:
Hi all,

I've just upgraded to Sierra and also updated my Kronos to the latest version.
I am experiencing a crackling noise after a few seconds of playing audio on my computer.
Do you guys had the same experience, any advice?

Many thanks!

L.


I am struggling with that too, see a few posts down

USB ? whats your routing and bus settings ?
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Valles
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My routing is just plain USB connexion to my Mac. No buses involved.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valles wrote:
My routing is just plain USB connexion to my Mac. No buses involved.


where is the audio from your MBP going ? are you routing the headphone out to
a hardware mixer ?

what are your audio settings in your MBP ? what input and out put was selected ?
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Valles
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found a solution.

Connecting the Kronos (USB) straight into the MBP instead into my Apple Display does the trick.

Then the routing is: Mac output (USB) to "Kronos".
Mac input (USB) from "Kronos"
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StephenKay
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The USB bus on the Apple Display probably does not have enough power or throughput or whatever any longer. The USB ports on my Apple Cinema Display have become very unreliable as of late and like you, I've taken to not using them.
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Valles
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update:

After a few minutes of audio playback from the usb connected straight to the MBP the sound degradation starts again. I have to unplug the usb cable and plug back in to restore the audio.
Confused
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danmusician
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valles wrote:
Update:

After a few minutes of audio playback from the usb connected straight to the MBP the sound degradation starts again. I have to unplug the usb cable and plug back in to restore the audio.
Confused


Could it be a buffer setting in your app on the Mac? Is the buffer overflowing causing the distortion? Just a wild guess on my part...
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DeltaJockey
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been experiencing this problem too...for quite some time.
It has been getting worse with each successive operating system update. It started for me with El Capitan and now Sierra is worse then ever, and has reached a point where I've tried everything and have given up. I'm just sending the audio out of the Mac to a mixer, or to the audio in on the Kronos when I play virtual instruments. I have several Macs, and 2 different Kronos with the latest software and firmware updates, and it happens on all of them in any combination.
I've tried every setting on the Mac, in Logic Pro X and on audio apps which are freestanding. Obviously I am running the latest drivers etc, on everything.

It only seems to happen with Kronos audio interface. When I plug in my Roland JP80 as an audio interface there is no problem. Like everyone, if I adjust a setting, or change some configuration it seems to reset and come good for a minute, then de-generates into a mess. It sounds like a bit rate sync issue, but I have aligned all the settings, and nothing fixes it.

I've searched the web, the mac forums, and other than the mention of this frustrating issue as a problem with no answer, I've not found anybody with a robust solution, other than reverting to an older version of OSX.

I'm usually pretty good at sorting this sort of issue out, but I have to confess, this one has got me stumped. I've even discussed this on the forum previously, as have a number of us,


Chris
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pedro5
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The key to this is two fold,having two solutions.
One being the setting of the Configure Speakers in the Audio midi Set Up applet for distorted sound,including any loopback problems via the Kronos usb audio.
The other is for clicks and pops.

Distorted sound.
The Kronos and the Built In Output needs to be different.
When using a DAW for audio recording/playback with a mixer….the Kronos will be input and the output will be the Built In Output on the imac,but on different speaker channel outputs.
(This will show when the Kronos is booted and listed etc).

Both outputs can be connected to the mixer as per norm.
Kronos line out and the Headphone/Line out from the imac.

(Using the Kronos as a mixer is possible,but it has some limitations….that is another story…).

This is what works for me for Mountain Lion and Sierra on a late 2013 iMac.
(Mountain Lion works with its default setting anyway,without the need to configure speakers,but Sierra needs to be set up correctly).

For the clicks and pops.
The Kronos has the Re Sample This Device active in the imac applet.

I use an aggregate device setting….Kronos plus Built In Output,set to be Use This Device For Sound Input and Output,but this method may not be essential.

A final check needs to be done in the imac System Prefernces/Sound applet ensuring that the correct input and output are selected.
(It usually does this automatically,but sometimes can go adrift).

Hope this helps.

Best Wishes.
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DeltaJockey
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for your thoughts Pedro,

unfortunately I've pretty much tried all that, and just when you think you've found it, the sound begins to breakup again. Sometimes it is ok for several minutes before happening. I just end up with false hope, which is why I've given up. You'd think a problem like this with a considerable number of people experiencing it, (though evidently not everyone), would come to someone's attention. If it is a quirk of OSX, I hold little hope of Apple ever addressing it. Interestingly, when I first had the problem, it was only on my later hardware, Macbook Pro 2015, and not on any of my hardware before 2013, but with each os release it has crept into all my macs.
I thought using an aggregate device might help by enabling the drift correction, but it doesn't work either.

BTW, are you are referring to the Kronos mixer limitation being only 2ch over usb? I tend not to use the multi's anyway, so 2ch stereo is fine for me.

Anyway, unless I've missed something obvious, or I am misunderstanding the macs config routing, I cannot solve this infernal audio degradation Sad
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aron
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is not good. I can confirm with a 2015 Retina Macbook pro running Sierra. Unlike others, I have not installed anything music-wise other than the built in Garage Band - which came with the computer.

I plugged in the Kronos and it showed up right away in Audio MIDI setup. I set output to Kronos and then in the Kronos in audio set Bus Select for USB1 and 2 to L/R which enabled both channels.

It sounded so clean and good!

Then I started playing Garage Band instruments and all of a sudden, horrid cracking and distortion. It never stopped until I went into Garage Band Preferences and reselected the Kronos for the audio again.

Then I started my stopwatch and 1:45 secs later it came back.

I would say it's useless.


UPDATE: Tried with my 2010 Macbook Pro. Same thing. Around 1:14 secs crackling came back. Makes no difference whether you choose built in output for system preferences or Kronos.
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Gunnar



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can confirm that OSX Sierra messes with things, but it wasn't golden before either.

My typical setup is such: I've been running Reaper on my mid-2014 13inch MBP for a good whlie now and using the Kronos as and USB audio interface. By the time my songs reach conclusion, I usually have 30-40 individual tracks, but only 5-10 playing at a time. 1 for the vst drums, 1 for bass, 1-4 for guitars (doubling or quadrupling depending on riff) and 1 or 2 tracks for the synths, then 1-4 for vocals depending on backing tracks.. All tracks have EQ and some have compression and some have delay. Reverb is handled on a side chain. Accoridng to OSX's Activity Monitor I'm rarely running over 20-30% load. Reaper's performance monitor tells me a similar story. After working on a song for a while, say 5-10 minutes, it would start to stutter a lot, become metallic and distorted. I've always wrote this off as bad buffer settings on my part. Note, this was ALWAYS the case when running through the Kronos, also on El Capitan and also before that. By resetting the audio interface, the problem goes away.

A while ago, I realized this problem was only happening when I used the Kronos as audio interface. When using the built-in audio on the MacBook, it never happened, so I started tweaking all sorts of buffer/device settings in Reaper and managed to get the problem to go away.

At the end of it, I was running 48000Hz, 24-bit and 12/12ms latency and no big problems with stuttering/distortion.

After upgrading to Sierra this morning, I noticed my latency was up to 45/45 so something bad has definitely happened. In addition, my stuttering/distortion problems are back after playing a minute or two even with a few tracks playing.

I managed to get the latency down to 12/12 again by resetting the block size back to the Reaper's default. (Not that this really makes a difference to me.. 12/12 is still too high play vst instruments effectively, but I take it as a sign of health). I didn't manage to get audio working properly, but I'll go through more settings and report back if I figure something out. My guess is that it is down the Kronos USB interface being rather sensitive and that something changed in Sierra to tip it over an edge again.

If anybody has a working OSX Sierra setup, sharing your buffering settings would probably be helpful :)
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Gunnar



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah.. on OSX Sierra, the Kronos audio interface is utterly broken.

I tried with GarageBand and then by setting the Kronos as the default audio output of OSX and play a song through Spotify, and in both cases, I get metallic crackling and distorted sounds. Tried youtube, and I have the same. Like others have reported, if I unplug and replug it, it is ok again for a short while.

Here is a few seconds of the Spotify playing a song through the Kronos USB interface. https://www.dropbox.com/s/sywznlfq3v5ml49/CracklingKronos.m4a?dl=0

Steps to reproduce:
- Turn on KRONOS and MacBook
- On KRONOS, route USB 1 to L/R, panned left, then USB 2 to L/R, panned right.
- Plug in usb cable to both KRONOS and MacBook
- In OSX, open System Preferences, go to Sound and select KRONOS as audio output interface.
- Open any sound producing application, for instance spotify or youtube, and play something. Crackling should start appearing after a minute or two..

Now.. As I wrote in my previous post, I upgraded to Sierra this morning, and though I've had buffering issues in the past, that was only when using a lot of tracks in Reaper. The distortion you hear in the sample above sounds similar, but it now happens on even the simplest of things (spotify and youtube) and after a very short time, so the KRONOS is no longer usable as an USB audio interface for me after updating to Sierra.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gunnar wrote:
Yeah.. on OSX Sierra, the Kronos audio interface is utterly broken.

I tried with GarageBand and then by setting the Kronos as the default audio output of OSX and play a song through Spotify, and in both cases, I get metallic crackling and distorted sounds. Tried youtube, and I have the same. Like others have reported, if I unplug and replug it, it is ok again for a short while.

Here is a few seconds of the Spotify playing a song through the Kronos USB interface. https://www.dropbox.com/s/sywznlfq3v5ml49/CracklingKronos.m4a?dl=0

Steps to reproduce:
- Turn on KRONOS and MacBook
- On KRONOS, route USB 1 to L/R, panned left, then USB 2 to L/R, panned right.
- Plug in usb cable to both KRONOS and MacBook
- In OSX, open System Preferences, go to Sound and select KRONOS as audio output interface.
- Open any sound producing application, for instance spotify or youtube, and play something. Crackling should start appearing after a minute or two..

Now.. As I wrote in my previous post, I upgraded to Sierra this morning, and though I've had buffering issues in the past, that was only when using a lot of tracks in Reaper. The distortion you hear in the sample above sounds similar, but it now happens on even the simplest of things (spotify and youtube) and after a very short time, so the KRONOS is no longer usable as an USB audio interface for me after updating to Sierra.


Been having a sucky time w/ Kronos USB and Mbp sierra as per my post saga

Would a new audio interface mitigate the problem ? Or compound it with more driver incompatibility?

Thanks
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